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12 vs 15m for Marginal

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tomtom
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12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby tomtom » Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:53 am

Hi All

Recently i experienced almost no wind day. My 9m kitech FRS powerstroke on beach was almost non existing.There was friend here with FS sonic 1 15.
I flyed kite on beach and it wont stay on zenith and was DOG to turn. But powerstroke was so strong that i want to try it on water. I indeed can foil on water with it but i ended with kite in drink anyway because it was just horrible misbehaving heavy kite.

So i now want kite which i use very rarely for these superlight winds either 12 or 15m. Im looking for FRS, SOUL, Pulsion type of kite /in UL for sure/.
How much difference there is between 12 and 15 with these kites from just can or cannot ride perspective?

Thank you very very much!

Tomas

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Qiter » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:27 am

Hi,

There was a similar thread before, check here : viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2401807

Bottom line is: If you have enough skills, there is little argument for a kite bigger than 12m for foiling (if you are not a racer).
The low end is marginally better on a 15m compared to a 12m (maybe 1kn), but the kite is heavier and slower and will make the use of it (and its extra power) more difficult.
I have sold all my kites bigger than 12m.

I hope this helps

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:21 pm

What is your weight and foil size ?
15m minimum gives you better ultate low end, no doubt about it. Even bigger depending on rider weight. Very light weight kite is a significant advantage.

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby PurdyKiter » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:21 pm

Qiter wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:27 am
Hi,

There was a similar thread before, check here : viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2401807

Bottom line is: If you have enough skills, there is little argument for a kite bigger than 12m for foiling (if you are not a racer).
The low end is marginally better on a 15m compared to a 12m (maybe 1kn), but the kite is heavier and slower and will make the use of it (and its extra power) more difficult.
I have sold all my kites bigger than 12m.

I hope this helps
Thank You, I have been REALLY bothered by these thoughts since my recent purchase of a new Flysurfer Soul 12m. I'm not worried it's too small, but that it's too big. My history is 3 years on Clouds, all Foiling, minimal pull freeride cruising. I now have the 12m Soul for super light 8-10mph days, but even in the lightest winds it really can get screaming fast on a Moses foil. Oh.... and 20 seconds after you thought it was powered? It dies and I'm swimming. Need more time on the water.
Weight: 155 pounds.
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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Foil » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:44 pm

I have just discovered foil kites for hydrofoiling, and a good tip from a long term foil kite user was to go ultralight, don't touch the standard cloth for ultimate light wind happiness, the reason is the ultralightweight kites are much better at floating up there when others standard cloths may want to fall.
Sold my 12mtr lei after two days of no luck in getting going, whilst my buddy was flying around on his 11mtr V3 chrono ultra lightweight foil,
he loaned me a 15mtr ultralight chrono V3 to use on day two,
I was amazed at the Yank from the water and up onto the wing in a instant, it was amazingly powerful, but he warned me not to get the 15mtr unless I wanted one for the Ttip.
The 13mtr Ozone Chrono U'light is the one I went for, but somehow I also ended up with a 14.5mtr North ace foil kite as well which is in the same lightweight material, so maybe one kite too many, time will tell.

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby plummet » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:32 pm

The conditions you describe are sub 8 knots probably 6 knots of wind. It wasnt a horribly heavy miss behaving kite that lead to a swim. It was your lack of skill for being able to understand and fly a foil kite in light winds. A 15m sonic is a sweet kite and completely capable to have an awesome session in those winds.

What you need to do is keep the you and the kite moving. Do stop moving the kite keep it going 100% of the time, loops, sining. When up on the foil make sure your transitions are crisp and your downlooping without stopping. You need to keep the apparent wind going at all times. As soon as you loose apparent you are screwed on ultra light days.


Side note. My largest kite is a 12m chrono. If i cant stay upwind on that then I am not interested in kiting. Thats about 6 knots. In trueth i really can be bothered below 10 knots these days.
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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby tomtom » Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:53 pm

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:21 pm
What is your weight and foil size ?
15m minimum gives you better ultate low end, no doubt about it. Even bigger depending on rider weight. Very light weight kite is a significant advantage.
Sorry 86kg Moses Onda 633 - so big foil

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby tomtom » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:03 pm

And I really have no problem riding foil kites :) That was in wind where this kite has no chance to loop - because with tight loop stall on one tip will lead to kite collapse and woth big enough radius it crash to ground.

Basicaly I can get going from 7-8 knots on my 9m foil kite. But not in 5-6. Question is should i buy 15 or 12m foil kite. Or how much sooner 15 get me going to compensate for otherwise inferior kite in compare to 12.
86kg - Big wing

many thanks

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby airsail » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:22 pm

At 80 kg the 12 Soul is enough for the light stuff, you will only need a 15 if on a racefoil, and then only for off the wind. Though I don’t like the 12 Soul on the big surf wing, too much power and too slow, the 10 would probably be a better option.

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby irwe » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:27 pm

At 86 kg and big wind I would look at the 15 m for your biggest light wind kite.
I am 72 kg with a big wing and thought I would want a 15 m foil but spoke with Ben at CA and he convinced me to go 12 m Pulsion LW and he was right, but for you at 86 kg go 15 m LW.


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