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12 vs 15m for Marginal

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Regis-de-giens
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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:07 pm

Even with my 60kg i can save some 0.5 to a knot between 12m and 15m (CA Pulsion); this seems ridiculous but is is not, it is 20 % lower end imrpmovement and can i.crease your ride frequency (it does on my 3 main spots) ; and up to 7 knots i prefer the highest power of the 15m, even if less agile.
For 86kg, no doubt ...
If you keep your 9m, i think that 15m is the est option , provided that you choose a very light kite to extend your wind range. Puslion 27gr or 32 gr (ultimate light wind weapon due to weight and loop boost), hyperlink v2 ultra light, Frs ultralight (but i am affraid of a lack of power, experiemented during my test with std cloth). To me the soul is a good one but not the best for this very light wind (too slow turning and too heavy if you keep your 9m)

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby foilholio » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:43 am

Qiter wrote: there is little argument for a kite bigger than 12m for foiling
You are falling into the trap that everyone is the same weight or wants the same experience.
Qiter wrote: but the kite is heavier and slower and will make the use of it
Yes they are heavier but they have a lower weight to area ratio, which means they fly in less wind. I think being able to use a larger kite is just experience.
Qiter wrote:The low end is marginally better on a 15m compared to a 12m
I don't have as close a gap as that but between say a 15m and 10m there is a lot of difference. Then my 18m is a massive difference to the 15m but that is a different kite. I think for lowend then efficiency which includes weight plays a huge role. Size more affects range, in that if the kite is not big enough it won't go and the bigger it is the lower the wind it becomes too much. It is a general rule that the larger the kite the more narrow it's wind range.

There is definitely a place for larger kites like 15,18,19 and even the 21m. it really depends on the weight and style and conditions. If you are heavier then some of those sizes could be a must. Lighter weight with consistent low wind? They are a good option. Into some style that demands the power, like airstyle? Sure.
plummet wrote: In trueth i really can be bothered below 10 knots these days.
I love below 10knots, but then I use kites bigger than 12m.
tomtom wrote:Question is should i buy 15 or 12m foil kite.
Get a Pansh and get both :-P
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plummet
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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby plummet » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:23 am

In my opinion no 5-6 knots is not worth it. Go do something else more fun. For me that's mountain. Biking.

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Rufusz » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:34 am

tomtom wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:53 am
...
How much difference there is between 12 and 15 with these kites from just can or cannot ride perspective?
...
I'm 82kgs and have an FRS 12 (fore sale btw)

I sold my 15m because it feels overpowered with the foil as soon as the wind is around 9-10kn.

I can foil with the 12 frs from 7-8kn (I guess) to 15ish. Moses 550/330.
As soon as the kite sits in the air with no imput required then you can foil. I guess the 633 wing would start earlier.

Yesterday was super LW and only the kitech designer guy could ride with the new FRS 18 proto, light cloth with 633. It just looked unreal it was really LW...

If you are looking for an ultimate LW kite go for the biggest one but in those conditions kite on the water means no relaunch and swiming with a big kite and a foil is no fun :)

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Qiter » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:12 am

plummet wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:32 pm
The conditions you describe are sub 8 knots probably 6 knots of wind. It wasnt a horribly heavy miss behaving kite that lead to a swim. It was your lack of skill for being able to understand and fly a foil kite in light winds. A 15m sonic is a sweet kite and completely capable to have an awesome session in those winds.

What you need to do is keep the you and the kite moving. Do stop moving the kite keep it going 100% of the time, loops, sining. When up on the foil make sure your transitions are crisp and your downlooping without stopping. You need to keep the apparent wind going at all times. As soon as you loose apparent you are screwed on ultra light days.

Side note. My largest kite is a 12m chrono. If i cant stay upwind on that then I am not interested in kiting. Thats about 6 knots. In trueth i really can be bothered below 10 knots these days.
THIS IS IT. Of course, gear plays a role, too. I am (and have been for some time) on a 633 at 90 kg, I live at a light wind spot, mostly 6-12kn. 3 years ago, my most used kite was a 15m, two years ago a 12m, last year and this year a 9m (all LEI). The conditions, on average, did not change, but my skills improved.
I have seen the same with many other kiters who progressed in foiling. Unless you race (or want to do race-like stuff) and just freeride, you do not need a bigger kite than 12m unless you have a tiny wing.
With enough skills, you get going in 6-7 knots and can stay upwind easily in those conditions.

Regis-de-giens
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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:00 pm

If we are talking about marginal and ot just light wind, it means below 7 or even 6. People thinking that for 80 kg or more, a 12m is enough to reach the lowest fun end, could have experienced lighter winds with an appropriated very light kite , IMO.

About fun in 6 knots, it is a matter of personal taste... because for example in this video (15m2, about 6 knots, sometimes less, i had faaaaar more fun that my personal taste to bike or hike...



Get a 15 if you seek marginal. Get a 12 if 7 knots is enough for you

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:01 pm

irwe wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:27 pm
At 86 kg and big wind I would look at the 15 m for your biggest light wind kite.
I am 72 kg with a big wing and thought I would want a 15 m foil but spoke with Ben at CA and he convinced me to go 12 m Pulsion LW and he was right, but for you at 86 kg go 15 m LW.

Agree fully.

You are just a tad over average weight, so a 15 m2 for marginal winds.

Bigger wont help much or at all, even the racers here say they dont go earlier with their 21 m2, so if they dont practice race but just want to ride for fun (yes, a few does that too) they take a 15 m2 instead of 18 or 21 even when on the lower end.

Of course you will only go marginal lower with a 15 than a 12, but it is really noticeable, so can only recommend this especially at 86 kg no doubt.
Use a 15 m2 Pulsion myself @78 kg, in 5 to 6 knots of wind, but at 7 knots I use 12 m2 LEIs.

8) Peter

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby plummet » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:23 pm

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:00 pm
About fun in 6 knots, it is a matter of personal taste... because for example in this video (15m2, about 6 knots, sometimes less, i had faaaaar more fun that my personal taste to bike or hike...


Yeah thats a good vid of what light wind foiling is all about. No swell to speek of, no interesting water features. to me its dull. I have far more fun riding down a mountain track on my mountain bike. But every now and then in summer when i feel like a zen chilled out cruse around i'll take it on.

Regis-de-giens
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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:32 pm

So ! Each one of us is different ... And here we are on a kitesurf forum... :wink:

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby tomtom » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:19 pm

Many thanks for all comments - One more question at 7-8 knots im OK with my 9m FRS - so i think 15-9 step will by manageable but dont know if also with some comfort of overlap. I dont want two big kites because i will not use it very often.

On side note

Interesting discussion about other hobbies - Im also avid mountain bike rider and for even more controversy EMTB rider from very beginning of EMTB movement. /emtb is just more fun - its not senior augmentation/ and lot of my kiting budies go for emtb as second sport - because we have nice mountains to ride and its sport which complement with kiting very nice.

But the problem with any biking is - you can go bike whenewer you want. And whatever you can do whenever you want start to be dull after some time. Its like woman /or man for sake of pol. cor./ always ready to please you. Sounds super fun but not so much after some time. But with kiting - you are Allowed - you not choose time. So kiting is women - which had to be in the mood to please you :)

And Plummet i know you say my MTB riding is lousy to see it like that - but thats the way i see it from old day windsurfing. :D


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