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12 vs 15m for Marginal

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Rufusz
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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Rufusz » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:47 pm

9-15 is fine I had that setup for years. I would go for the ultralight cloth it makes a difference.

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Cefirmeza » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:13 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:01 pm
irwe wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:27 pm
At 86 kg and big wind I would look at the 15 m for your biggest light wind kite.
I am 72 kg with a big wing and thought I would want a 15 m foil but spoke with Ben at CA and he convinced me to go 12 m Pulsion LW and he was right, but for you at 86 kg go 15 m LW.

Agree fully.

You are just a tad over average weight, so a 15 m2 for marginal winds.

Bigger wont help much or at all, even the racers here say they dont go earlier with their 21 m2, so if they dont practice race but just want to ride for fun (yes, a few does that too) they take a 15 m2 instead of 18 or 21 even when on the lower end.

Of course you will only go marginal lower with a 15 than a 12, but it is really noticeable, so can only recommend this especially at 86 kg no doubt.
Use a 15 m2 Pulsion myself @78 kg, in 5 to 6 knots of wind, but at 7 knots I use 12 m2 LEIs.

8) Peter
I am 65kg and was offered a second handed 15m FS Sonic FR for a good price.

I am interested in developing skills in really light winds. Above 9knots I only use a 9m LEI to freeride foil.
I can do downloop transitions and gybes. Haven´t tried tacks yet.
Would it be a good light wind option or I would get overpowered really easily?
Is it a stable kite on its lower end? How is the relaunch on those winds?

I neved had a foil kite before.

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby UKSurf » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:03 pm

You might consider a strutless 12m like a Cloud or Gong. They will get me going in 7/8 knots (95kg on Rocket Foil) so probably with the right foil and lighter weight rider 6knots would be possible with a 12m strutless. If you want to start going out in super light winds you run the risk of it going to nothing and having a long swim.
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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Slyde » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:50 pm

Personally I think it depends on your preferred riding style. A lot of guys seem to like the “big wing small kite” style with very little kite pull. If that’s you go for a 12ish size. For me I like to ride powered so I am “small wing big kite” style and I choose a 15 as my low wind choice. Both a 15 and a 12 can be ridden in similar conditions but you may choose longer lines on the 12 to get the same range. I do this when I want to practice stuff on a slower foil and get pretty much the same wind range. And yes you will get a little more low end out of a 15 but not noticeably so. Unless you live in one of those rare places with very steady light breezes the wind oscillates up and down between 4 and 10 knots in that light wind “can I ride or can’t I ride” scenario so you will use the puff to get going and then you just have to have the skills as Plummet says to keep the kite flying should you stop and lose the apparent wind effect.
The other thing to consider is what model of kite it is you choose. Having ridden Chronov1, Chronov2, R1V1, R1V2, and most recently Soul I can without doubt say that the Soul is ridiculously easy to relaunch compared to the others although it gives away a little race car feel to get a little more LEI style grunt. If you think you will be dropping the kite give that issue some serious thought. I haven’t ridden one but suspect the Hyperlink also has that easy relaunch too. The relaunch issue should not be underestimated imho.
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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:41 pm

Agree with Slyde, it is all about your personal preference.

Whether you like to ride really powered, or the opposite.

If I was 65 kg, I would use a 10 max 12 m2 foilkite for marginal winds.

8) Peter

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby cnski » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:56 pm

I use a 12m Kitech FRS Ultalight with 21m lines as my biggest freeride foil kite with a Groove skate small or KS 37". I weigh 110 kg. I can ride this setup when I can't get going on my 17m R1V2/racefoil combo. The 12m Kitech Ultalight is a crazy good kite. Turns MUCH faster than my friend's Soul 10m with good power. So I bought the Kitech. I am using a new 1500cm wing designed by George Hradil of Delta foils. This wing is obviously very large but is super efficient and actually quite fast. This new wing has a new design concept and is truly amazing. I like kiting powered. I havent tried a 15m FRS but the wind I have been able to kite in with this kite/foil combo has been eye opening for myself and the guys I kite with who are much smaller than I am. Line extensions might give a bit more low-end but I am having a 120ish cm board made with volume that will really help with low-end waterstarts.
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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:32 pm

With my 60kg and very light foilkite, i can ride with less wind with a 15 m2 vs 12m2. Almost a knot difference with is significant in those winds...
At one point, you need to be lifted on the board, what ever the agility of the kite, and for this step a 15m (with longer lines to keep an efficient large loop) is necessary, even with 60kg. For ultimate low end above 70kg, even a 18m.(very light and agile) is useful... in my humble opinion

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Tomlutz » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:20 am

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:32 pm
At one point, you need to be lifted on the board, what ever the agility of the kite, and for this step a 15m (with longer lines to keep an efficient large loop) is necessary, even with 60kg. For ultimate low end above 70kg, even a 18m.(very light and agile) is useful... in my humble opinion
Have you tried a really big wing? While I have experienced the same as you (21m kite but not big wing), I am now trying a big surf wing and indeed you get lifted on the board with much less power = smaller kite.

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby tomtom » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:50 am

For me big wing and small kite is way to go. Im on 9m FRS when lighter very good race guy is on 15 R1 V2 we have about same low end. But there is big wing and big wing.
Some big wing are just too slow for my liking - thick Go foil style. For example Neil pryde glide - i rode M size and dont like it - just too slow. And its obvious from just looking at wing. Too thick. So for me - big but thin wing are best.

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Re: 12 vs 15m for Marginal

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:55 am

Tomlutz wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:20 am
Regis-de-giens wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:32 pm
At one point, you need to be lifted on the board, what ever the agility of the kite, and for this step a 15m (with longer lines to keep an efficient large loop) is necessary, even with 60kg. For ultimate low end above 70kg, even a 18m.(very light and agile) is useful... in my humble opinion
Have you tried a really big wing? While I have experienced the same as you (21m kite but not big wing), I am now trying a big surf wing and indeed you get lifted on the board with much less power = smaller kite.

This is not my experience...

The wing size does not matter at all IMO, in terms of lifting you up on the board.

So Regis is right, kitesize, AND peak power (meaning you need higher AR if a smaller kite), is essential for being able to waterstart.

As this is the determining factor in ultra marginal winds - to be able to get up on the board.

Once up, you can ride, if you got the right board and wing :rollgrin:

My answer was to Cefirmeza at 65 kg, as if I did not have many kites, I would not go for a 15 m2 as the first foil kite if only 65 kg.

He will have so much more use of a 10 or 12 IMO.

8) Peter
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