Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

the art of the loop!

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
neilhapgood
Medium Poster
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:03 am
Kiting since: 2005
Local Beach: Swansea
Gear: twin tip
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 1 time

the art of the loop!

Postby neilhapgood » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:26 pm

so I occasionaly hear people talking about using a loop to get them going when underpowered or continously looping to get in if the breeze dies.

However my attempts at looping seem to generate little or no power and far less than a top to bottom dive.

One thought is I am looping too tight, should the loop extend as far as possible?

Mainly on LEI's but have a 12m soul as well.

Thanks folks!

User avatar
jumptheshark
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:36 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: Shhhhh
Favorite Beaches: Nude
Gear: The good stuff
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Re: the art of the loop!

Postby jumptheshark » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:59 pm

For sure you lose power with super tight loops. Some kites will pinwheel with no power some kites won’t. Open it up a bit to get max power.

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 9266
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 96 times

Re: the art of the loop!

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:07 pm

Very often you can get more power to get up foiling, if you dont loop the kite.

Meaning, loop the kite while you waterstart and get your ass out of the water - here it works better as you dont risk the kite goes "down" if light wind.

But when up on the board, you can usually get riding better if you fly the kite down in the window, and slowly up again.

When you do this, you utilize your line tension and angle and apparent wind much better than a loop where you got loads of loss - so you can start easier and faster this way in my experience, at least if using longer lines.

So loop the kite when you waterstart, and to get going you might be better off not looping - but extremely dependant on conditions and specific kite.
Some smaller foil kites generate loads of power when looped on longer lines, compared to flying it down and slowly up, where they can be quite "dead", till they get more speed.

Whereas bigger LEI kites are often better when dived and not looped.

8) Peter

airsail
Medium Poster
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:57 am
Kiting since: 2006
Local Beach: Queens
Favorite Beaches: Queens, Scarbs
Style: Freestyle
Gear: Bularoo 7, Yaga Pro 11, HP10&12, FS Psycho2 17,
Cardboard 136x46, Nobile 555 131x40
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: the art of the loop!

Postby airsail » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:30 pm

An easier option with the Soul is to backstall it till close to the water, let the lines go and let it accelerate upwards, lifting you onto the board. Haven’t tried it on a LEI but it works well on a foil kite.

User avatar
cglazier
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2416
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 1999
Gear: Naish, Duotone, Flysurfer, Alpine
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: the art of the loop!

Postby cglazier » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:34 pm

airsail wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:30 pm
An easier option with the Soul is to backstall it till close to the water, let the lines go and let it accelerate upwards, lifting you onto the board.
Interesting technique, I'll have to try that. But not in very light winds where there may not be enough wind near the water to ensure the kite will ever come up.

With my Soul 12m a kiteloop generates way more power than up and down strokes. It is the only way for me to get up on my board foiling sometimes. In fact I have always used kiteloops to my advantage with my previous light wind kites, Ozone Edge 13m and Naish Boxer 12m.

But when the wind drops to very very light levels and I am body dragging back to shore, I just concentrate on keeping my kite in the air and a move like a kiteloop is just too risky.

:wink: CG

tomtom
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 76 times

Re: the art of the loop!

Postby tomtom » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:46 pm

Its completely kite dependent some kite loops much better than other - but im strong believer that longest most smooth path give you most powerfull and longest powerspike. And that is not loop :)
Backstalling is imo very weird technique and because you start from very inferior position with completely non moving kite - moving opposing gravity - in winds where it work - everything will work

junebug
Frequent Poster
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:14 pm
Kiting since: 2007
Gear: Twintip
Foil
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: the art of the loop!

Postby junebug » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:26 am

jumptheshark wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:59 pm
For sure you lose power with super tight loops. Some kites will pinwheel with no power some kites won’t. Open it up a bit to get max power.
Yeah, this. Don’t choke the bar and make the loop a low, long sweeping turn with a wide radius for the most power.

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: New brighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool
Favorite Beaches: holidays - Flag beach and Matas bay + sotavento on fuerteventura
Home - New Brighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 130, naked carbon,gold stripes
101cm Moses Carbon mast
71+90cm Slingshot masts with moses adaptor
Moses- 633 and 683s and 790 wing sets
Ozone V4 Reo 6/8/9
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kites -15/13/9
Ozone compact V4 bars,click in
North 2018 click bar with Q power lines
Nobile 50/50 twin tip
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 54 times

Re: the art of the loop!

Postby Foil » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:36 am

For me,when the conditions are just right for a downloop water start, I find it the most satisfying way of instant pop up and away fast,
unbeatable feeling, and feels so efficient as in one smooth loop you are up to full height and speed.

But at times the kite is either too big, or the wind too strong to get it just right,so I just take the safe soft option and do a regular downstroke,
in stiff winds with a fast lei I find myself choosing to loop at the corner edges of the wind window to loop the kite, as the center area will have me doing superman impressions, embarrassingly uncool.

My best size of kite to loop start with is my 8 or 9mtr, the sizes above and below are not as reliable for assured success.
cant wait for very light wind days to use my new foil kites to see how they loop, or not as I suspect they might not be ideal for the loop start.

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 9266
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 96 times

Re: the art of the loop!

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:12 am

I assume the OP are talking about low winds.

Hence bigger kites quite often - most LEIs dont give the same punch when looped, as smaller ones, thus you can start earlier if you get the right downsweep and use the apparent wind to accelerate, instead of the loop.
OR, make rearwards loop so you can use the apparent wind on the forward stroke.

With medium or smaller kites the loop gives you a lot more power than the downsweep, but for bigger kites most will gain most in a downsweep where you use your increasing board speed to gain even more power.
It is a delicate balance :D

Regarding getting ashore if the wind dies as you write, no matter what kitesize, then you HAVE to loop the kite, the only way to avoid a swim.

Depower the kite somewhat on the trim, so you dont choke it when looped in too little wind to ride.
Then loop twice in one direction holding one bar end, and twice in the other holding the other bar end - back and fourth with one hand only, while you hold your board with the other hand.

This way you and your board can get ashore in ridiculously low winds, even with a dry kite when on land again :rollgrin:

8) Peter
These users thanked the author Peter_Frank for the post:
jla (Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:22 pm)
Rating: 10%

Macster
Medium Poster
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:16 am
Kiting since: 2012
Local Beach: Melbourne
Gear: Moses and Ozone
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: the art of the loop!

Postby Macster » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:33 am

Soul 12m generates crap loads of power in a loop. Loop it so wide that the kite almost hits the water I.e. the widest possible arch and make sure you sheet the bar out as soon as the kite is half way through the loop and on the way back up.

If you haven't done this sort of loop before, do not do it in more than 12 knots to begin with...


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

cron