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(almost) tool-less foil setups

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tmcfarla
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Re: (almost) tool-less foil setups

Postby tmcfarla » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:31 pm

geokite wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:29 pm
But the lift foils still needs a mallet to remove from the mast. No amount of grease has eliminated my need for a mallet.
Weird. I've never once used a mallet on my 2017 lift or had any trouble getting it on or off the mast. I gently press in place and then alternate tightening screws, and to remove I take out screws and rock front to back. 30 seconds tops to put in or remove. Maybe sand mast side down a bit?

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Re: (almost) tool-less foil setups

Postby OzBungy » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:42 am

Interesting. I would never consider a plate mount. So bulky and clunky.

I have J Shapes gear with a deep tuttle mount and a one piece foil-fuselage-stabiliser. I do a full assemble/disassemble every session. That's two screws for the fuse to mast connection and two screws for the mast to board connection. No mallet required.

I recently switched to Torx screws and a Torx t-handle wrench. The hex heads in the previous screws would wear out after about 50 sessions. The t-handle has a flywheel effect and the screws spin in/out faster than using an electric screwdriver. The Torx connection is very robust and secure and I can nip the crews up nice and tight just using the t-handle.

I foil almost every day and have about 300 hours on my kit. Apart from a little cosmetic sanding and painting of the edges of the wing and stabiliser there is zero maintenance required. The gear all looks brand new. There are a few minor chips on the rails of the board with give it a nice patina of use.

I have heard that the Naish Abcrcadabra fitting gets a bit sloppy over time.

It would be nice to have a totally tool free system, but I would not want to swap the simplicity and robustness of my current gear. I guess I could wear a stainless Torx key around my neck if I wanted to be able to disassemble out in the field. I have some tools in the wife's car if she needs to come and rescue me from somewhere.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: (almost) tool-less foil setups

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:07 am

BWD wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:37 pm
Ketos has only one screw for board:mast and mast:fuselage, 2 screws each for wings.
Only one tool is needed, supplied with the foil.
Before they switched to torx screws, the tool had only one bit!
A standard hex wrench will work on the torx screws, in case you lose the torx tool.

Riding as often as OzBungy I think, I love the ease of assembling/dissasembling with just one screw :thumb:

Oz, you must be tightening yours to the extreme? Or weak "screws"? The latter is unlikely I would think.

I have never ever worn a hex thread on any of my screws, and some have been used for 5 years now, as they came with the first Ketos I got, and I still use them.
The last wing I bought came with torx screws yes, but I see no reason to change so I still use the hex screws.

Having only one small tool/bit to change mast and wings is key and simple, I love that, when riding so often.

I can see though, if you tighten hard, that torx could be good :D

Often only board, or board and mast, that is dissasembled, so only one max two screws needs to be removed - fast and snappy.
Never ever take the "flyer" apart - but I still need to change wing and stab size the next time out, if I want to use another wing and stab, so quite often wings are taken apart and on too - of course I leave it with the one I rode the last time, IF conditions are for this the next day, as then only one screw (or two) and you are ready to fly :naughty:

In general there are two ways of mounting:
Assemble and then tighten as hard as possible to try to get things closely connected and "slopfree".
or
Assemble, tighten slightly, wiggle in place, and tighten - thus no slop and it wont be loose during your session.

I always use the second method - of course you could also use both, but THIS will be hard on your screw heads yes.

8) PF

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Re: (almost) tool-less foil setups

Postby 3InletsWindsports » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:41 am

Bolts only need tightening too a stretch range where the bolt have some stretch within its range of elasticity.

Over tightening just kills the elasticity and promotes both failure and loosening.

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Re: (almost) tool-less foil setups

Postby OzBungy » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:42 pm

I used to use a bicycle torque wrench to tighten the screws to 4Nm. That felt a bit loose. I tweak them a little further to about 5Nm. It's all finger pressure.

It seems that constant screwing/unscrewing wears out the hex heads. I invested in very good quality tools but slop comes in over time. I used to swap them out at the first sign of slippage. Torx heads seems to have fixed the problem.

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Re: (almost) tool-less foil setups

Postby PurdyKiter » Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:23 pm

My personal vote for the worst mast-board connection idea: The Moses T-38. It comes with bolts and a specific nut that's not available anywhere but Italy. It requires 3 hands to put it on the board. It invites a crust of fine sand on a windy beach (because the threads need a lithium coating). Recently I needed to change out the mast on a day with fine dust blowing sand. Besides fumbling with holding the mast in position, holding the 15m wrench, holding the torque driver.... then the wind blew a fine dusty sand all over the threads and made the connection near impossible.

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Re: (almost) tool-less foil setups

Postby bricedenice » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:21 am

Ok so no full tool-less. Don't like to leave any stuff at the beach while I'm kiting, but I guess one small hex allen wrench is light and not pointy enough to fit in a pocket of some sort.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: (almost) tool-less foil setups

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:11 am

bricedenice wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:21 am
Ok so no full tool-less. Don't like to leave any stuff at the beach while I'm kiting, but I guess one small hex allen wrench is light and not pointy enough to fit in a pocket of some sort.

So you ride a foil kite, no bag, and walk to the beach, or by bus/train?

Sounds like good stable conditions :thumb:

Couldn't you just assemble it before leaving, if you walk, if you don't want to have anything on the beach?
How do you transport the foil anyways, if disassembled, without any carry case or something?
I am a bit mystified now :roll:

8) Peter

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Re: (almost) tool-less foil setups

Postby bricedenice » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:02 pm

:lol:
fair enough a bit of background...

I foiled one season in 2015 with a v1 sroka foil and discontinued due moving to another country and family reasons. Still have it but it is a pain to assemble/disassemble (heard the following versions are easier though), am currently in the market for something else.
Now living just across the street from a beach but the building has a small elevator, so would have to disassemble (have not foiled there yet, would carry board and disassembled mast under one arm and flying unit with the other hand - intend to use big wide front wings, so I suppose leaving the flying unit attached to the mast would be too cumbersome to pass through the elevator and building narrow doors). The beach can be somewhat crowded and sometimes I'm the only kiter (will kite solo even more often when foiling), leaving something on the sand and disappearing from view upwind is not the way to go believe me (this ain't no scandinavia).
Currently leaving just a cheap nylon bag (which I use to transport the kite) with and old pair of slippers inside. Worst case scenario is coming home barefooted with the kite stuffed inside my lycra (already happened).

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Re: (almost) tool-less foil setups

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:18 pm

Makes sense now, thanks for explaining :D

8) PF


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