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Hydrofoiling: Why you need a short mast - Foil Fridays

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Hydrofoiling: Why you need a short mast - Foil Fridays

Postby Toby » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:51 am


cor
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Re: Hydrofoiling: Why you need a short mast - Foil Fridays

Postby cor » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:24 pm

This video is too much pro short masts in my opinion. It makes it sound like it's always the better choice. I agree that it's easier to learn on and better to ride in shallow water, fair enough. But I am not sure less drag and shorter masts are really better for light wind. It's so minuscule, you won't even notice.

In fact, the disadvantages surface very quickly once you have progressed from the learning stage:
-you cannot heel the board over when going upwind
-you cannot lean as far into the turns without ventilating/stalling the foil.
-you cannot "load" the board as far for jumping

Even for learning, I am not sure if a bigger mast just gives you more space to control the ups and downs but yeah, crashes will be harder. For me, it was never a problem and I enjoyed the longer mast (90CM) right after I succeeded with actually hovering over the water...so basically after only 2-3 sessions where maybe a shorter mast would've made sense.

My opion is: Better safe the money for a shorter mast unless you are kiting in a shallow spot.
Last edited by cor on Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hydrofoiling: Why you need a short mast - Foil Fridays

Postby PurdyKiter » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:52 pm

Cor... But I thought I was feeling a definite improvement in nice super tight swell and wave carve response on a shorter 91cm Onda mast vs the 101 Ghost Whisperer mast.
Oh... Maybe 91cm isn't considered "short"?

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Re: Hydrofoiling: Why you need a short mast - Foil Fridays

Postby juandesooka » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:10 pm

PurdyKiter wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:52 pm
Cor... But I thought I was feeling a definite improvement in nice super tight swell and wave carve response on a shorter 91cm Onda mast vs the 101 Ghost Whisperer mast.
Oh... Maybe 91cm isn't considered "short"?
I think 91cm (36") is considered standard for kite foiling. 101cm is considered "long", or at least longer than standard. Buddy has that 101, loves it for big chop and for keeping the front wing in the water on deep fast carves.

I didn't watch the whole video, but the main reasons they give for short mast are learning (agree wholeheartedly) and shallow spots (also agree, and not just for rocks, but for the seaweed that grows a few inches above the rocks....have discovered that is the WORST). The 3rd reason, light wind, is interesting. Hadn't thought of that, but makes sense. I've used my big sup foil wing kiting in light winds, it's a lot to handle on the tall mast, so short mast seems to work better.

For surf/sup foil, 24" is the standard. But higher performance uses are now pushing towards 27-30". The difference is surf is the wave power is strongest near the surface, so it needs to ridden high to gain max wave energy ... and 2' already feels pretty high up on a wave. ;-)

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Re: Hydrofoiling: Why you need a short mast - Foil Fridays

Postby grigorib » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:40 pm

I started with 90cm mast, then moved to 105cm, then added 71cm to the mix, tried 24"/28"/30"/36"/15" and 16" masts so far

My opinion - long mast is the way to go. For large bodies of shallow water like OBX/SPI you want to have an additional, short mast.
The 71cm (and anything shorter) felt a bit too short for my riding style but it was easy to ride shallows with it.

I'd say 10cm difference between masts doesn't justify owning both, but 20cm is a good gap.

Here’s my current set - 105/91/80
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Re: Hydrofoiling: Why you need a short mast - Foil Fridays

Postby dave1986 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:00 pm

grigorib wrote: Here’s my current set - 105/91/80
I didn't know that Slingshot/ Moses did a 105cm carbon mast? I thought it was only 91cm / 101cm / 111cm ?

Or was 105cm an old size which isn't available anymore?

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Re: Hydrofoiling: Why you need a short mast - Foil Fridays

Postby dave1986 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:08 pm

Just Google'd it and it appears your 105cm mast is 2017 slingshot mast (stated on website as 107cm with fuselage). ?

I currently have 91cm and 60cm masts. If I were to buy a bigger mast do you think a 111cm would be preferable to a 101cm?

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Re: Hydrofoiling: Why you need a short mast - Foil Fridays

Postby bragnouff » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:56 pm

Really depends on the spot, but at my local, low profile beach with onshore conditions and beach break, a shorter mast made a whole lot of difference. Going from 90 to 75cm allows to start in waist deep water as opposed to chest deep. When you walk out upwind, in one case you can keep traction on the bottom with your feet, in the other you float too much at every wave to hold your ground. And then you don't need to bodydrag as far at the back. You can actually start behind the first sandbars then make your way at the back through gaps.
I did chop my mast initially for more riding time on a tidal estuary, but the main benefits have been reaped at the beach.
On the other hand, needs to be a bit more cautious when conditions are heavily choppy.

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Re: Hydrofoiling: Why you need a short mast - Foil Fridays

Postby Qiter » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:55 am

cor wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:24 pm
This video is too much pro short masts in my opinion. It makes it sound like it's always the better choice. I agree that it's easier to learn on and better to ride in shallow water, fair enough. But I am not sure less drag and shorter masts are really better for light wind. It's so minuscule, you won't even notice.

In fact, the disadvantages surface very quickly once you have progressed from the learning stage:
-you cannot heel the board over when going upwind
-you cannot lean as far into the turns without ventilating/stalling the foil.
-you cannot "load" the board as far for jumping

Even for learning, I am not sure if a bigger mast just gives you more space to control the ups and downs but yeah, crashes will be harder. For me, it was never a problem and I enjoyed the longer mast (90CM) right after I succeeded with actually hovering over the water...so basically after only 2-3 sessions where maybe a shorter mast would've made sense.

My opion is: Better safe the money for a shorter spot unless you are kiting in a shallow spot.
I fully agree. I recently went back to a shorter (71cm) mast for traveling (it fits nicely in a normal suitcase) while I am usually on a "normal" 91cm. For normal riding, no issues, but BIG disadvantages for more advanced stuff (all the carving in maneuvers and going upwind), as already mentioned.
The main disadvantage for me is the much smaller margin for errors on a small mast in choppy conditions. Fly it too high the wing will come out of the water and it will ventilate, fly it too low and the board will catch a chop. If you ride a small pocket board with near zero scoop, you get in trouble quickly, you maybe have a flight height variation of 20-30cm, which is rather technical when its choppy.
I also contest the statement about a short mast being better in light wind. With the longer mast, I can "pump it" much better and have much more margin cranking the board upwind once I have some kite pressure. The drag difference of the additionally submerged 10-20 cm is likely minimal.
I am an advanced foiler and avoid the small mast whenever I can.

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Re: Hydrofoiling: Why you need a short mast - Foil Fridays

Postby juandesooka » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:50 am

Qiter wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:55 am


I fully agree. I recently went back to a shorter (71cm) mast for traveling (it fits nicely in a normal suitcase) while I am usually on a "normal" 91cm. For normal riding, no issues, but BIG disadvantages for more advanced stuff (all the
The main disadvantage for me is the much smaller margin for errors on a small mast in choppy conditions. Fly it too high the wing will come out of the water and it will ventilate, fly it too low and the board will catch a chop. If you ride a small pocket board with near zero scoop, you get in trouble quickly, you maybe have a flight height variation of 20-30cm, which is rather technical when its choppy.
Same experience for me. I brought a 30" mast on a recent trip to save a few pounds of luggage. I really noticed a big difference with the missing 6". It was doable just a little more iffy and tentative, between breaching or burying the wakeskate board.


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