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carbon vs Alu mast

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nayy
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carbon vs Alu mast

Postby nayy » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:12 am

Hello,

I had a F-one IC-6 with alu mast, after a demo form a Moses Onda is swapped my F-one for a moses onda.

I don't have my F-one anymore, so I cannot compare them 1 to 1.

I thought that a carbon mast would be much lighter an much stiffer...
Yes, maybe a little bit lighter, but not spectacular, but the carbon mast does not seem to be stiff... I think even less than the alu mast...
Especially the part 15 cm under the foil seems flexible... or does this add comfort maybe ?
the Moses mast seems to be less large than the alu F-one mast and is tapered, under the board the moses is thicker than near the foil.

I''m not talking about the wings... there the difference in stiffnes and weight is huge...

so: what is the advantage of a (very expensive) carbon mast ?

thanks,

Nayy

tmcfarla
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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby tmcfarla » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:51 pm

I have an aluminum (Zeeko) mast and a carbon (lift) mast. The aluminum mast is slightly lighter, barely thicker, and seems every bit as stiff. Maybe the high end race masts are a lot better, but I think a good aluminum mast is probably fine for nearly anyone. The fuselage attachment point of the lift mast is a lot better though.

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:08 pm

In my experience with different masts, the alu ones are A LOT heavier.

Stiffness is not much of an issue for the freerider, and they are both quite stiff, unless those carbon ones made in a "less optimized" layout (and there ARE differences, also in price).

So if you have alu and carbon masts almost same weight, and tmcfarla even one where alu is lighter than his carbon, I would keep the alu.

Havent experienced this myself though, quite opposite, the weight of alumasts is one of the things that put me off.

You are right though, that hydrofoils with alumasts are also often with higher density wings thus heavier in the water, and the fuselage could also be heavier alu, so it is not only the mast that weighs.

8) Peter

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby grigorib » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:10 pm

I wouldn’t use carbon Lift mast as example as some of them were heavy (heavy core wrapped in carbon) and some lighter (but fragile or letting water in, which is a serious design/quality issue)

Riding Moses carbon masts I know they’re thinner and smoother than aluminum. They don’t sing like Double Agent, they’re smoother than Dwarfcraft mast with the same wings.

Aluminum is cheaper by $500-700 and for one-off mast needs are good, just as for beginners and for folks who don’t travel by air.

Aluminum is very good. Carbon is amazing and there’s extra cost to “amazing”

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby Bille » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:41 pm

grigorib wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:10 pm
...
Aluminum is very good. Carbon is amazing and there’s extra cost to “amazing”
Not if your a DIY guy !

Carbon string, (tow) un-woven , can be had for about $20 / Lb , (0.453592kg)
on the roll, (like fishing sting).

That's cheap ; for what you get !!

Bille

https://www.sollercomposites.com/tow.html

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby grigorib » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:48 pm

Bille wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:41 pm
grigorib wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:10 pm
...
Aluminum is very good. Carbon is amazing and there’s extra cost to “amazing”
Not if your a DIY guy !

Carbon string, (tow) un-woven , can be had for about $20 / Lb , (0.453592kg)
on the roll, (like fishing sting).

That's cheap ; for what you get !!

Bille

https://www.sollercomposites.com/tow.html
Yes, especially if one makes tuttle connection it could be also pretty straightforward.

Aluminum masts are easy to cut and tap but making a mast plate is quite a task. Also I saw some lighter aluminum masts bending so it's not an easy pick.

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby Foil » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:50 pm

in the shorter length the difference is only in the weight, I have been out the last two days on my 74cm slingshot ali mast due to low tides, and there is no difference in feel apart from carrying the rig to the low water line around a third of a mile down the beach, its heavy.

95% of the time I use my 101 moses carbon mast, its super light and stiffer than my old moses 91cm mast, they use more carbon layers to achieve this.
compared to my 91 slingshot mast there is a slight difference in feel at speed and when playing in the waves with small kites and cranking the board around quickly, go slower and there's not really much difference to be felt.

cost difference is silly.

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:48 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:08 pm
Stiffness is not much of an issue for the freerider
Speak for yourself. Can't stand a wobbly mast, massive issue for me.

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:16 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:48 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:08 pm
Stiffness is not much of an issue for the freerider
Speak for yourself. Can't stand a wobbly mast, massive issue for me.

Maybe I should rephrase it then:

Whether it is stiff like an alu or normal good carbon mast, or stiff like an ultra high modulus (expensive) carbon mast, is hardly an issue for average weight freeriders.

A wobbly mast never feels right :o

I have never seen (felt) or ridden one though, except for some home builds :wink:

8) PF

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:47 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:16 am
hardly an issue for me
There, I fixed it.

I know actual average weight freeriders who are bothered by any flex in masts, either aluminum and "quality" carbon.

Once you notice it, it's very bloody annoying. I should add this to the reasons I prefer a shorter mast.


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