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carbon vs Alu mast

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alowishus
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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby alowishus » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:38 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:47 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:16 am
hardly an issue for me
There, I fixed it.

I know actual average weight freeriders who are bothered by any flex in masts, either aluminum and "quality" carbon.

Once you notice it, it's very bloody annoying. I should add this to the reasons I prefer a shorter mast.
I think Kami you mentioned on another thread that you found the hoverglide mast to be flexy, or something to that effect. If that is maybe what you are referring to, I know what you mean. I don't think it's the mast per se, since the actual slingshot masts are as stiff as hell, but more an issue with the connection between the mast and front wing. The mast connects fairly rigidly to the fuse, but the front wing can flex and twist a bit around the fuse, giving the effect of flex, if that makes sense, which can be noticeable sometimes when riding. I have also found the connection to between the collar and the mast can easily become sloppy if the top bolts are not done up really tight. Got to be careful to not put tefgel under the screw heads. The hoverglide system could be improved a bit I guess, but still excellent value for money. But then again there are the lighter alu foil masts that may flex I guess...?

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:06 pm

alowishus wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:38 pm
I think Kami you mentioned on another thread that you found the hoverglide mast to be flexy, or something to that effect. If that is maybe what you are referring to, I know what you mean. I don't think it's the mast per se, since the actual slingshot masts are as stiff as hell, but more an issue with the connection between the mast and front wing. The mast connects fairly rigidly to the fuse, but the front wing can flex and twist a bit around the fuse, giving the effect of flex, if that makes sense, which can be noticeable sometimes when riding. I have also found the connection to between the collar and the mast can easily become sloppy if the top bolts are not done up really tight. Got to be careful to not put tefgel under the screw heads. The hoverglide system could be improved a bit I guess, but still excellent value for money. But then again there are the lighter alu foil masts that may flex I guess...?
That's the one I knew the most intimately, but there have been others I've ridden and noticed a wobbly ride.

In my memory, I put that down to how locked in the wing was and how resistant it was to changing the direction ... the way I was riding at that time. And how massive the board was. And how massive the wing was way down there :lol:

I also noticed the bolts coming loose at the top of the mast, but I put that down to the crappy anti-corrosion paste I was using. Tefgel has proven itself to be very good :)

Some of my buddies are actual average kiters (~75kg) and have commented on other wobbly rides too. So there's that.

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby Cefirmeza » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:45 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:06 pm
alowishus wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:38 pm
I think Kami you mentioned on another thread that you found the hoverglide mast to be flexy, or something to that effect. If that is maybe what you are referring to, I know what you mean. I don't think it's the mast per se, since the actual slingshot masts are as stiff as hell, but more an issue with the connection between the mast and front wing. The mast connects fairly rigidly to the fuse, but the front wing can flex and twist a bit around the fuse, giving the effect of flex, if that makes sense, which can be noticeable sometimes when riding. I have also found the connection to between the collar and the mast can easily become sloppy if the top bolts are not done up really tight. Got to be careful to not put tefgel under the screw heads. The hoverglide system could be improved a bit I guess, but still excellent value for money. But then again there are the lighter alu foil masts that may flex I guess...?
That's the one I knew the most intimately, but there have been others I've ridden and noticed a wobbly ride.

In my memory, I put that down to how locked in the wing was and how resistant it was to changing the direction ... the way I was riding at that time. And how massive the board was. And how massive the wing was way down there :lol:

I also noticed the bolts coming loose at the top of the mast, but I put that down to the crappy anti-corrosion paste I was using. Tefgel has proven itself to be very good :)

Some of my buddies are actual average kiters (~75kg) and have commented on other wobbly rides too. So there's that.
I felt that too.

After switching to the fast wing (H3) I noticed more stability. I could also do flying foot switches for the first time and nail almost every single one. heel and towside on my natural stance.
Crazy how a front wing switch can make a huge difference.
I tought the biggest sizes would make it easily to learn air gibes.
I think the larger span and rool stability of the smaller wing was the reason. Glad I took the step foward. :D

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby Kamikuza » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:52 am

Cefirmeza wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:45 pm
Kamikuza wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:06 pm
alowishus wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:38 pm
I think Kami you mentioned on another thread that you found the hoverglide mast to be flexy, or something to that effect. If that is maybe what you are referring to, I know what you mean. I don't think it's the mast per se, since the actual slingshot masts are as stiff as hell, but more an issue with the connection between the mast and front wing. The mast connects fairly rigidly to the fuse, but the front wing can flex and twist a bit around the fuse, giving the effect of flex, if that makes sense, which can be noticeable sometimes when riding. I have also found the connection to between the collar and the mast can easily become sloppy if the top bolts are not done up really tight. Got to be careful to not put tefgel under the screw heads. The hoverglide system could be improved a bit I guess, but still excellent value for money. But then again there are the lighter alu foil masts that may flex I guess...?
That's the one I knew the most intimately, but there have been others I've ridden and noticed a wobbly ride.

In my memory, I put that down to how locked in the wing was and how resistant it was to changing the direction ... the way I was riding at that time. And how massive the board was. And how massive the wing was way down there :lol:

I also noticed the bolts coming loose at the top of the mast, but I put that down to the crappy anti-corrosion paste I was using. Tefgel has proven itself to be very good :)

Some of my buddies are actual average kiters (~75kg) and have commented on other wobbly rides too. So there's that.
I felt that too.

After switching to the fast wing (H3) I noticed more stability. I could also do flying foot switches for the first time and nail almost every single one. heel and towside on my natural stance.
Crazy how a front wing switch can make a huge difference.
I tought the biggest sizes would make it easily to learn air gibes.
I think the larger span and rool stability of the smaller wing was the reason. Glad I took the step foward. :D
Some days I think the choice of gear is vital, some days I think it's just a matter of experience... Some days both :lol:

Say, what was this thread about again? :lol:

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby alowishus » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:10 pm

It’s another mast comparison thread with no scientific data :roll:

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby bacon2109 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:44 pm

it's not exclusily about weight, more thickness of the mast....
less thick, less drag,..... more speed.
-----
quote for Bille Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:41 am
"
Not if your a DIY guy !

Carbon string, (tow) un-woven , can be had for about $20 / Lb , (0.453592kg)
on the roll, (like fishing sting).

That's cheap ; for what you get !!

Bille

https://www.sollercomposites.com/tow.html
"
-----
all the good mast are made from Ultra high modulus (UHM) Carbon fiber;Pinch base,
which differ form standart Carbon fiber, high strengh (HS), Pan base.
from sollercomposite;

12K 520 53.0 HMS4 1734 1165 0.24 0.008 $45 USA ONLY

53.0 represent the minimun value that most of the builder use for a good mast,
something smaller in value, a good rider(racer) will/may fell deformation in the mast

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Kamikuza
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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:43 am

bacon2109 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:44 pm
it's not exclusily about weight, more thickness of the mast....
less thick, less drag,..... more speed.
IIRC thicker and longer chord means less drag than thick and shorter chord...

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby Foil » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:26 am

Out on the short aluminium mast for 3 days due to low tides,
fact to remember is-
kick it underwater and it hurts like hell, flipping thing really hurts much more than lightweight carbon, made my eyes water!

carrying it with the mast edge resting on my shoulder for the long walk to and from the water is a pain, literally.

Happiness is going back to my long light weight carbon mast from today,

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:39 am

Foil wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:26 am
Out on the short aluminium mast for 3 days due to low tides,
fact to remember is-
kick it underwater and it hurts like hell, flipping thing really hurts much more than lightweight carbon, made my eyes water!

carrying it with the mast edge resting on my shoulder for the long walk to and from the water is a pain, literally.

Happiness is going back to my long light weight carbon mast from today,
So ... don't kick it?

And figure out a better way to carry it :lol: I tuck mine in like I'm marching with a rifle, with the fuse in my hand.

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Re: carbon vs Alu mast

Postby joekitetime » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:31 pm

Howdy. I've been agonizing this dilemma and finally got the opportunity to do some back to back tests over the weekend.

Foils: 2019 ghostwhisperer 2 91cm (space skate design). 2018 fsurf h2 wing, all slingshot...
Board: 3'6" dwarfcraft w/straps.

My take:

The carry:
It sucked, I mean it was the absolute worst to carry that mother of a foil down to the beach. Usually I carry my kite in one hand and foil in the other and run and bounce to the water. Not with the aluminum. Crap, that thing is so heavy that after kiting for 2 hours, second session, I nearly thru my back out carrying it back to the launch. And forget carrying it proper on your shoulder. Seriously, after about 30 seconds your shoulder will be screaming of pain and wanting relief. Contrary, the carbon foil was simply a dream. Light, delicate flower bouncing on my shoulder, I barely knew it was there.

The start:
Carbon is a dream. The board lays on its side effortlessly. Super easy to ride strapless. The 2018fsurf h2 wing is a beast. I've tried but that mother is so heavy I cannot ride it without straps. With straps it takes a bit more effort to get up and go, just slightly.

The ride:
At first I fought the H2 wing. It likes to fly flat and doesn't want to get all squirrly like the space skate or moses/ghostwhisperer 91. But it does have better glide, better low end. It stalls at a much lower speed. And it is super stable which I both liked and didn't like. But this isn't a comparison regarding different wings but rather aluminum vs carbon. I will say that after riding about 10 minutes I fell in love with that heavy H2 wing like I love my ghostwhisperer. It is solid and nice. Not quite as playful but sometimes I just wanna cruise.

Summary:
To confirm what I've read numerous times, the ride quality of the slingshot aluminum masts feels a bit heavier, slower, kinda even sluggish compared to carbon. The mast doesn't slice quite as nicely. It is a pain in the @ss to carry it around. But in the end I really liked it and would ride aluminum as my only foil. I do like being less worried about it getting damaged. But that carbon is nice! But the aluminum works well!

This isn't meant to contradict anything else others have said, only to try to describe my foiling experience this weekend.

Cheers!


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