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Best ultra-lightwind hydrofoil

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dave1986
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Best ultra-lightwind hydrofoil

Postby dave1986 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:26 pm

Interested to know people's opinions on the best ultra-lightwind hydrofoil wing?

I'm interested to know whether there is anything much better than the Moses 633 wing? Perhaps somthing large but higher aspect and faster?

Or is the kite being light enough to be able to stay in the sky normally the critical factor rather than the hydrofoil itself?

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Re: Best ultra-lightwind hydrofoil

Postby slowboat » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:39 pm

Great questions. I believe higher aspect large wings will outperform the “633 type” wings (meaning 1200 ish, AR in the 3’s).

My limiting factor used to be kite staying in the air but since using single skin kites, my limiting factor is now ability to water start as single skins fly in nothing. So I am now looking at some higher aspect large wing options.

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Re: Best ultra-lightwind hydrofoil

Postby jumptheshark » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:09 pm

Peter Frank is your man on this one. Wings.... he has em all.

There is a thread he started about a large area higher aspect wing that is a light wind killer. I'll try and find it.

Found it:

viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2402565

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Re: Best ultra-lightwind hydrofoil

Postby bigtone667 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:15 pm

AXIS 102 ..... SUP foil, slow but above the water.

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Re: Best ultra-lightwind hydrofoil

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:38 pm

Indeed yes jumptheshark, I have got (and tried) quite a number of wings :wink:
Kruiser thread which you found: viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2402565

The Ketos Kruizer, a tad smaller, got more lift less loss and I can definitely ride in somewhat less wind than with the 1200 wings (Ketos 1200V2Kool or Moses Onda 633)

It is the foil, and then the board(size), which is the limiting factor regarding ultra-lightwind in my experience, and as you say slowboat, the ability to waterstart also.

As the kites we can get today, special UL foilkites or strutless or singleskin kites, can hang in less than you can ride, and sometimes less than you can waterstart.
AND, if a skilled kitesurfer, you can fly your kite even if it can not hang.

I think there will be (is) other wings similar to the Kruiser, but time will tell :D

Surface area in itself does not seem to be the solution, as they tend to be too draggy eventually, for creating apparent wind and wing lift, and for having fun carving.
So a 2000 cm2 SUP wing is probably not the (best) solution :roll:

8) Peter

I tend to use it quite some, in situations when the wind drops, I just change foil/wing instead of rigging up or changing board, like here where the wind went down close to 6 knots only, could just keep my 10 m2 onestrut in the air flying it all the time on long lines, before foiling, but once up, which was easy with this wing, it was great and felt powered and was fun :thumb:
Out a few weeks ago:
Kruiser.jpg
Image

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Re: Best ultra-lightwind hydrofoil

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:59 pm

dave1986 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:26 pm
Or is the kite being light enough to be able to stay in the sky normally the critical factor rather than the hydrofoil itself?
IMO this becomes the bottom line. Lower cruising speed of a decent big wing helps with ridability but you gotta get on the foil first.

And if it's that light, it's probably not going to be much fun :D

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Re: Best ultra-lightwind hydrofoil

Postby edt » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:37 pm

If the kite can fly you will be able to foil. That's my feeling. There are a lot factors but here are three of them: 1) line length. Whenever you turn a kite the harder you turn it, the more power loss you get. When you have longer lines you can loop your foil kite in a longer arc so it loses less power. In really light wind 30-40 meter lines makes a lot of sense. 2) board flotation. If you have more board flotation this means you can plane easier so that you can slowly build up speed. 3) hydrofoil take off speed. This is really weird. There are some pretty fast wings that have a low take off speed. Once you are on a foil you are good so I don't think you necessarily need the largest wing, just one that has a low take off speed. I'm still working on my transitions right now, that's really important in light wind. Once you have board speed it's pretty critical not to loose it in a transition because otherwise you are swimming back. Anyway that's my two cents, I'm not an expert by any means, but if the kite stays in the air my feeling is you are gonna be able to foil, and it's not just the kite, not just the wing, but a bunch of factors all put together. As long as your foil has a low take off speed (5 knots or so) and your kite is in the air but you can't foil, then I think yeah the foil is probably good enough and maybe take a look at using longer lines first since that's really easy to do. I did 5 swims back in the past 5 days so I'm getting pretty good at rolling up and swimming back with my foil kite. Each time it's because I botched my transition and after I lost my apparent wind, that's all she wrote.

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Re: Best ultra-lightwind hydrofoil

Postby grigorib » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:27 pm

I can keep a 9m Peak up in the air in 3 knots and I kept 19m Speed3 Deluxe flying in 3.5 knots (measured on land obviously). I doubt either of those would pull my butt out of water at that wind speed and when whipped in the air they would pull me out onto the board but then they'd be terribly slow to turn around and get me actually going in those winds.
Maybe modern race kites paired with huge board are better in that regard. Or maybe a huge wing, like 790 or 873 would do better.
But. When I'm on water by myself I ride the 633 with a 9m Rally on long lines. Usually everyone else drops off at those conditions to resort to logging in working hours while performing their jobs remotely or just sipping beers and saving energy for a better session.

Absolute lightwind is a questionable fun thing to do few times, just to figure out your limits but it's boring and lonely riding :)

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Re: Best ultra-lightwind hydrofoil

Postby Slappysan » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:46 pm

I'd bet the SPG Albatross would be one of the better performing wings in absolute LW.

With a Peak 4 11m you could probably foil in 5 knots with most surf foils though.

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Re: Best ultra-lightwind hydrofoil

Postby haare » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:25 pm

For me the issue is the waterstart in ultimate light wind. I can hold my 21m sonic race in the air in 4 knots. 5knots I can kite. 4 not. I am getting now bigger wing so maybe I can kite with it in 4 knots.

I have now spitfire with custom carbon wings, close to xlw. I am gettin xxlw for ultimate light wind. I would like to try these single skin kites, but I doubt they can give me the same low end as my 21m sonic race.

Spitfire xlw is quite good in low wind, cannot wait to try the xxlw.


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