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Control system by Bracuru

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BraCuru
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Control system by Bracuru

Postby BraCuru » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:05 am

Sharing some ideas of control system for advanced riders. Only for advanced ones.

Intro.
I've been experimenting with control systems since 2010.
Made more than dozen of unique systems without chicken loop.
I do not like a chicken loop as it is a design for windsurfers. I do not like hooks at all - it damages the boards, knees and does not allow to lay down on a board while swimming back to a shore or doing the superman.
Present systems are expensive as each bar requires to have a chicken loop, swivel, quick release, trimming, stopper.
As a foiler I need something simpler. I do not unhook at all.
I believe that the systems for foilers would go into direction where trimming will be included in a harness.
Especially for foilers using RAM kites with short lines.

I ride Flysurfer Soul 15 and 8m and noticed that using them with shorter lines caused that I do not touch a trimmer (depower) anymore.
Soul15 with works well:
- in a range of 6-20kts with 18m long lines
- in a range 8-25kts with 12m lines
- in a range 10-30kts with 9m lines.

Conclusion for lines below 18m - a reduction of 1 m lines' length is almost like a reduction of 1 square meter of the kite's area.
A wind range of Soul15 with lines 12m is like Soul 10m (with 18m lines). Soul15 with 9m lines is like a Soul8 with 18m lines. Ish...

Above stirred my mind. Why should I need a trimmer then?
For riding in normal winds I do not need it at all.
However in very gusting winds it might be needed for a safety reason.
Then next question appeared. Why should I have a trimmer on kite lines if i can shift a trimmer to a harness?
IMO it's great idea as each control bar would be much simpler, cheaper, safer and less parts on the control system which can tangle the RAM kite's bridle.
Less parts = less problems.

General view:
Image
Image
Image
Image

Closeup view:
Image
Image
Image

Safety.
I am testing two means of kite's releasing:
a) total flag out - both power lines are released at the same time,
b) double flag out - both power lines might be released independently (two cleats and one double ended leash are required).
In both cases it works not bad. It was tested in a range 4-25kts. On the water and ashore.
One important thing is that once the safety system is released then a bar need to be hold in hands - therefore it's a system only for advanced riders.

Adjusting a trimmer
Both hands must be employed with present cleat.
I am working on a cleat which allow to adjust it with only one hand.

A bar.
Groove single piece carbon 55 and 52cm. 170-180gr.
After two weeks of using them I am addicted.
Image
I had to add some protection for the hole's edges to protect the carbon work.
Image

A cleat.
I am using Cabrinha cleats which had to be modified:
Image

A quick release
As simple as possible.
Please note that there is only one knot instead usual two. this knot is hidden underneath a ball. There are no two nots which works like a tangling magneto for the kite's bridle hahaha.
Image
Image
Image

Trimming
there is no trimmer on the lines.
A trimmer is placed on a cleat mounted by a swivel to the harmess.
It allows to trim upto 70cm in extreme conditions.
In reality 10-20cm makes all what I need.

Weight.
The system ready to fly with 12m lines weights 290gr.
Image

with a harness 831 grams. I will reduced it below 800gr :)
Image


Pro racers.
I believe that it might be something what some of them are looking for. Simple. Small weight. Reduced air resistance.

One of first trials with basic system without a swivel:
Image
Last edited by BraCuru on Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
These users thanked the author BraCuru for the post (total 3):
elguapo (Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:38 am) • grigorib (Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:01 pm) • wheat (Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:59 am)
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longwhitecloud
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Re: Control system by Bracuru

Postby longwhitecloud » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:26 am

I love minimal look bars

i would consider half hitches on bar that lead to deathloops with leader lines with minimal rigidity /floats though. Rare but when it happens nightmare if you have a long throw and let go of bar. Air resistance though.. you take ya risks. I have had a bar half hitch in super high winds omfg - don't want to go there again...

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Re: Control system by Bracuru

Postby evan » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:29 am

If I am correct the stopper above the bar also moves up and down while trimming?

If the stopper is set at the maximum distance you can still reach during racing this does not work as you are only bringing the stopper closer or too far away. The stopper too far is very bad as I want the barspin after tacks and gybes as fast as possible without any chance of missing the bar or have it out of reach so it is best to have the stopper at exactly the same optimal position at all times.

I am testing a clean setup also, but with backline trim so the stopper and quick release don't move up and down and you can have the qr assembly as short as possible giving maximum bar throw.

BraCuru
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Re: Control system by Bracuru

Postby BraCuru » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:52 am

evan wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:29 am
If I am correct the stopper above the bar also moves up and down while trimming?

If the stopper is set at the maximum distance you can still reach during racing this does not work as you are only bringing the stopper closer or too far away. The stopper too far is very bad as I want the barspin after tacks and gybes as fast as possible without any chance of missing the bar or have it out of reach so it is best to have the stopper at exactly the same optimal position at all times.
The stopper is in fixed and "sweet "position.
As I said - I do not touch the depower while riding. No need except some extreme situation when wind picks up extra 15 kts out of the blue.

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Re: Control system by Bracuru

Postby evan » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:08 am

Well, my optimal race trim leaves very little backstall. So I like to be able to to give it some extra 10cm when launching or body dragging out in low winds. I also ride a lot of prototype kites that all have a different trim setup where it is easier to change the backlines while riding than land the kite and change some knots. So your setup wouldn't work for me unless I also change the position of the stopper every time.

More pictures now I see, how is this release "quick" whith the depower cord locked into the cleat? You need to activate the qr and also get the depower cord out of the cleat. Something that costs valuable time and fiddling in an emergency situation or am I missing something?

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Re: Control system by Bracuru

Postby ronnie » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:45 am

Another minimalistic system. A bullet swivel could also be included in this where the centre line attaches to the spreader bar.


BraCuru
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Re: Control system by Bracuru

Postby BraCuru » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:35 am

evan wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:08 am
More pictures now I see, how is this release "quick" whith the depower cord locked into the cleat? You need to activate the qr and also get the depower cord out of the cleat. Something that costs valuable time and fiddling in an emergency situation or am I missing something?
17 years kiting. I needed twice to release a kite in emergency while learning. In both cases it did not work due to poor early kitesurfing designs.
I haven't use a flagout or a quick release in last 10 years.
I do not need it even in emergency.
This system is designed for riders who know how to control a kite in any situation.
Even such one ;)


However I believe that further developments would allow to use it by the less experienced ones.
Please do not focus on this subject. I don't want to explain that somebody does not need a thing which for someone is the must.
This topic means to show how we can improve the design to make it cheaper, easier, simpler, more reliable.
ronnie wrote: Another minimalistic system. A bullet swivel could also be included in this where the centre line attaches to the spreader bar.
Nice one :)

My approach has a main goal: as less as possible knots, parts, connections etc.
No single steel part on the control bar or lines. Just one thing - a plastic stopper. I am testing a system without a stopper tough.

For example - a QR ball usually is attached by rubber line with two knots outside the ball - invitation for a tangle ;)
My solution without any outstanding knots:
Image

Tangling - a word of explanation. Often I swim up to a kite to untangle a bridle, to set up a kite or to release water form the cells. This is a moment where a smooth gear is welcome.

I am looking for how to produce a cleat with a swivel and protectors on both ends.
It would minimise the system even more. Just one steel part on entire system.
The QR pin in above system can be made of plastic :idea:
Would love to make a cleat of titanium.
Anybody would help me please?

The present cleat is too heavy and too large. I had to add a roller and limiters on roller's edges.
Poor thing is that it's made of some magnesium alloy what makes impossible to weld any stainless steel parts.

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Re: Control system by Bracuru

Postby bragnouff » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:54 am

ronnie wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:45 am
Another minimalistic system. A bullet swivel could also be included in this where the centre line attaches to the spreader bar.

That's interesting, but while changing the knot on the hook does depower the kite, it only does so by changing the distance bar/harness when the bar's all the way in. If your kite chokes or backstalls when the bar is pulled in to the stopper, then it won't change anything there, except hitting that stopper will happen with your arms bent more or less.
But maybe it's only my preference having a lower stopper to hold the bar against, at constant distance from my harness, hence why I've yet to be convinced by the CCS.

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Re: Control system by Bracuru

Postby elguapo » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:10 am

i like the idea...
..and i see a lot of potential.

but imo "safety" arent really features for beginners only

a QR to me is like insurance.
no one needs insurance until..you know....they actually need it.

i can only recall needing to use a QR once the last few seasons ....but man, i'm glad i had it at that moment.

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Re: Control system by Bracuru

Postby ronnie » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:26 am

bragnouff wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:54 am
ronnie wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:45 am
Another minimalistic system. A bullet swivel could also be included in this where the centre line attaches to the spreader bar.

That's interesting, but while changing the knot on the hook does depower the kite, it only does so by changing the distance bar/harness when the bar's all the way in. If your kite chokes or backstalls when the bar is pulled in to the stopper, then it won't change anything there, except hitting that stopper will happen with your arms bent more or less.
But maybe it's only my preference having a lower stopper to hold the bar against, at constant distance from my harness, hence why I've yet to be convinced by the CCS.
Yes - it is only trimming how far away your range of bar movement is.

Clamcleat once developed a moveable stopper for a single line (along with Dimitry Maramenides).


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