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Upwind 360 and 180 carves from toeside

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Dave K
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Upwind 360 and 180 carves from toeside

Postby Dave K » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:09 pm

So I am getting at least a few of my heel side upwind 360 and 180 carves per session. Not remotely consistent or “pretty clean” yet but that’s ok, I’ll slowly get there. Doing this on a 633/483/71cm mast/120cm Groove Skate with my 10m Ultra down to my 5m Passion (RRD) in shallow OBX water.

I’d luv to try doing these same moves from toeside just to start on something new and need some pointers. So far my first attempts were less than sad and even a bit stressful on my bar holding arm. Way too much hesitation right now is one obvious mistake I’m making. For those doing it, any learning tips for a klutzy ole guy? Is this a logical next move to work on? Thanks!

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Re: Upwind 360 and 180 carves from toeside

Postby juandesooka » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:47 am

someone with way more expertise than me will provide more help, but I can give the klutz side. I decided I wanted to do these too, but the motion mystified me. I found the only way I could get my head around it was to do the dance moves on a big open sandy beach with a small 4-line kite. Repeated crashes until the motion was down. Toeside was trickier than heelside, requires more ducking under.

So if it keeps eluding you, maybe give that a go.

And for me ... I have to sacrifice a few sessions, attempting to pull the trigger in the water, or it'll never happen. :roll:

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Re: Upwind 360 and 180 carves from toeside

Postby Qiter » Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:10 am

For the toe-to -heelside 180:

I found the move actually easier than footswitches, so dont be scared, just go for it. Some key points that made it for me:

1-Make sure your stance is comfortable, maybe a bit wider than usual so you can carve tighter (you are already toeside and going at DECENT SPEED to give you the momentum to go upwind)
2-Have the kite really high above you, if needed go a bit downwind before initiating the move to be under the kite
3- Release the front hand, just fly the kite with the back hand and SHEET OUT completely, carve upwind aggressively by "leaning in the lines" (with the bar sheeted out completely). Your weight should be a bit forward
4-Grab the bar a little towards the outside to increase leverage for what comes next
5-Once the board is pointing almost upwind, start to CRANK AND PULL THE BAR HARD WITH YOUR BACK HAND (=the one that remained on the bar) to loop the kite as high up as possible. This will bring the kite around and also serve as some kind of turning point for the board and yourself. You can lean on the lines and the bar no problem at this stage, so you wont loose balance.
6-Once the board is around, finish the loop and kite away

Obviously, this is easier with a smaller kite and when you are not overpowered, but its all a question of practise and timing (like everything in foiling). If you have a big kite, you can use both hands ("fishpole style") to yank the kite around in the last part (from Nr 5 above).

There are a number of videos posted on the other threads on this move

The toeside 360 is then just to continue toeside once the board is around, its easy when you have done the 180.

Just try, its one of the easier foiling moves and looks really cool!
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Dave K
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Re: Upwind 360 and 180 carves from toeside

Postby Dave K » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:23 am

Ok thanks. I really like the idea of dry land (or shallow water in my case) practicing this move, and as always, starting out being underpowered with a smaller kite. I look at the arm movements from simple frame grabs off video clips (no idea wether this is ideal form but he seems to get through them easily) and they definitely don’t look as simple as the heel-side version, especially with the bar arm sorta going up over-behind your head before the other arm regrabs the bar. I just remember stalling in that upwind position and my bar arm obviously yanking me backwards off the board, about what you’d expect for the first try’s at this......
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Re: Upwind 360 and 180 carves from toeside

Postby robclaisse » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:49 pm

There was some good discussion about this on this thread "The Other Tack":
viewtopic.php?p=1060816#p1060816

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Re: Upwind 360 and 180 carves from toeside

Postby junebug » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:32 pm

There is good information about these on several other threads. Just use the search function.

The only things I will add are that, for me, (1) learning on a bigger kite is easier because the timing isn’t so critical and you don’t have to use a loop (for the 180 at least), (2) you have to keep the kite high and bar out as you initiate the upwind carve, (3) the upwind carve is a hard carve and will not feel intuitive at first, and (4) you have to start diving the kite in the opposite direction sooner than you think. I also found it helpful to rotate the bar into the new direction of travel as I’m doing the upwind carve to help me conceptualize what I was trying to accomplish. Plus, in order to do that, the kite has to be high, so it’s a good check to make sure the kite is where it needs to be.

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Re: Upwind 360 and 180 carves from toeside

Postby oregonkiter » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:30 pm

Is there a lot of back foot push/drive needed to get the board through the eye of the wind? I tried several last year, and that was an issue for me.

Getting ready to try again this season. Can these be done two-hands on the bar? Would be better for my tendons, if so.

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Re: Upwind 360 and 180 carves from toeside

Postby junebug » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:53 pm

It can be done with both hands on the bar. I’ve never done it like that, but in at least one of the BRM videos Greg’s brother does it two handed.

One handed loops do put a lot of strain on the arms. I had to sit out a few months last season because of tendonosis of the brachialis due, in no small part, to learning this maneuver. If you have tendon issues, in addition to doing them two handed, I would suggest taking a bigger kite and learning to do 180s without a loop first. I found 360s to be easier, but it requires a loop, which will put more stress on the arms.

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Re: Upwind 360 and 180 carves from toeside

Postby oregonkiter » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:17 pm

< <I had to sit out a few months last season because of tendonosis of the brachialis due, in no small part, to learning this maneuver.>>

Yep, that's what did me in. Going to stick with two hands. I do my heel to toe tacks two handed, so should work out.

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Re: Upwind 360 and 180 carves from toeside

Postby cglazier » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:48 am

I was practicing my 360's today and here are two tips:
- it is way easier with footstraps
- it is easier with plenty of power (but not so much that you are afraid to downloop)

;-) CG

[the new Duotone Academy free app for your iphone or ipad has a nice tutorial on the foiling 360]


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