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New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

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Kitetwin-1
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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Kitetwin-1 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:09 pm

I have been using a wichard shackle like what I see on the Kauper bar, with 25 sessions on it I have not had an accidental release. Are you sure you have a geniune Wichard made in France (I payed $75 Canadian) or a cheap Chinese knock off.

Kitetwin-1
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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Kitetwin-1 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:11 pm

In addition to what I just wrote, the reason I use a Wichard shackle is to gain a below the bar swivel ona KISS bar

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Rainer Kauper
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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Rainer Kauper » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:18 pm

sedelito wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:36 pm
Luckily I had a leash attached to the ring aswell
I don`t know how you attach your safety leash to the metal ring and I also don´t know how your leash looks like, but as you know from our conversation here in February we do NOT recommend to use an extra safety leash, as your leash could be the reason to open the Wichard. I am sorry, but we cannot test all safety leashes on the market if they work well together with the Wichard and our system is designed to work safe without an extra safety leash. So if you modify a safe system you do it on your own risk and as it seems a safe system is now not safe any more. I am really sorry, but in this case you should not search the reason for your hazards at safe working parts.
sedelito wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:36 pm
Alltso the last two knots on the bar are impossible to get inside the bar while depowering,
The last 2-3 knots are made on the line to make it easier to grab the line. They don't have to run into the tube.
sedelito wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:41 pm
The depower system is really hard to use but the throw of the bar is good and helps a lot.
When you want to use the internal adjuster you should ride for some meters towards your kite in order to get less tension an all your lines. This makes it much easier and this is not only valid for the Pintxo bar, but to nearly all bars on the market.
sedelito wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:41 pm
Really don't want to thrash talk about Kauper and the reason I'm writing here and not to Kauper direct is that I want people to know about the risks.
If I can help I will always do it and if there is something to improve it has to be done immediately. That´s how I see safe Kiteboarding. In your case you have modified a safe system and so you took a risk that you have maybe caused yourself. I would like all our customers to ride with a safe system and so we spend a lot of time with testing. If we start selling our product you can be sure it´s safe, but I am sorry that we cannot test modifications self-contained done by our customers.

a99 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:49 pm
Can't understand why Kauper still recommending this crap system for people if he definitely know how lot of times it released suddently brushed or etc.
I absolutely disagree with you. We have many customers writing E-Mails and calling me how well and safe the Wichard is working with our bar. Wichard is not Wichard! As I have explained here and our website we have modified the release system at the Wichard with a webbing and now you compare it with some solutions from older years with balls and other unsuitable things in combination with a Wichard snapshakle. With such systems I would not go out for one single second. The Wichard is a well designed part which has a safe working load with 1280kg and a breaking load with 2300kg. This demonstrates the durability of this snap shakle. Do you think other quickreleases from other brands would be able to resist such a high load, too?
BTW: You do not have to use the Wichard with our bar. If you do not like it you can use the Bar-Connector which comes together with the bar, but I recommend the optional available Wichard absolutely because not only we ourselves have had good experiences with it.

If you need further help from my side I am always available.

Ciao

Rainer Kauper
--------------------
KAUPER-XT

sedelito
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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby sedelito » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:39 am

I was using it without in beggining and I still do in light wind with the bar ending up in my hands fully powered when wichard is releasing.
I use doutone short leash which is totally covered in pu and nothing can get stucked.
I will love to use it witout but if my peaks fly away it will sink!
Ok thanks for the explaining about these last knots, then I think the bar itself is fully functional but the wichard isn't but when it does, it's lovely.

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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby evan » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:51 am

Wichard itself is not the biggest problem. Introducing a single quick release that is able to disconnect you from the kite while circumventing the flagout is.

Using a very sensitive quick release like the wichard 2673 makes this even worse. Even without the big webbing or balls to make the release easier you can activate it by just brushing your hand against it.

You just need to be aware that this is a possibility when using this system. And it is no big deal in most situations but when it does like stated above it can get dangerous fast when it goes off on the worst possible time.

I personally have the habit to grab the qr close to the harness for stability so I quickly ditched the exposed wichard after activating it that way unintentionally.

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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Frankieboy » Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:20 am

Rainer Kauper wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:18 pm

The Wichard is a well designed part which has a safe working load with 1280kg and a breaking load with 2300kg. This demonstrates the durability of this snap shakle. Do you think other quickreleases from other brands would be able to resist such a high load, too?
BTW: You do not have to use the Wichard with our bar. If you do not like it you can use the Bar-Connector which comes together with the bar, but I recommend the optional available Wichard absolutely because not only we ourselves have had good experiences with it.
My opinion is that if you use the wichard you always take the risk your kite will fly away if it accidentally releases (not properly closed, defect, etc).
The same happens if you rope breaks (sliding hook)

With other QR from other brands your leash is attached to the harness so you don't lose your kite if QR is activated (accidentally or not) or rope brakes.
This is not possible with the Pintxo unless I miss something.

If you use the bar-connector (or like I do a safety snap hook) + double your sliding rope you you are out of trouble and don't need the leash which makes the system very "clean" and that's where the design is brilliant :thumb:
No swivel though...

Frankieboy

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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Frankieboy » Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:28 am

here is my set up (for foiling only)
IMG_7692.jpg
IMG_7692.jpg (55.86 KiB) Viewed 289 times

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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby evan » Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:10 am

Frankieboy wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:28 am
here is my set up (for foiling only)

IMG_7692.jpg
How do you disconnect in case of a deathloop or a second kite from someone else stuck in your lines?

This setup is potentially more dangerous than complete lose your kite from an accidental release.

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Rainer Kauper
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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Rainer Kauper » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:21 am

sedelito wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:39 am
Ok thanks for the explaining about these last knots, then I think the bar itself is fully functional but the wichard isn't but when it does, it's lovely.
I would like to ask you to get in touch with us via E-Mail and send us your latest address so we can ship a new Wichard to your place. I would like to see if there is any problem you may not have with another Wichard. This is just to be 100% sure.
I would like to tell you btw something really strange in this context. At our beaches there is a kiteboarder riding a kite and a bar from a well known big brand. He is totally happy with his gear and I know that this gear is working 100% safe. But somehow he is swimming back to the beach nearly each session, because he has accidentally opened his quickrelease and he is not able to reassemble it while swimming. We have followed him to see how his accident happens, but it was naturally not possible to follow him all day long. Sooner or later he was swimming back again. :o
We cannot understand what he does and he also doesn't know how it happens. The local shop has already switched his bar twice, but he is swimming back again and again.
I do not want to say that you have the same, but you should know that we sell a lot of Pintxo bars together with the Wichard. Sometimes it's very difficult to get enough Wichards from this French company. I am sure you won´t think that all our customers which have bought our bar together with a Wichard do never use it and keep their new gear only in the cupboard. They use it a lot and we get no complaints of accidentally openings. I really hope we can solve your issue. In the meantime I would like to ask you to use the Bar-Connector which was included to your Pintxo bar shipment.

evan wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:51 am
Using a very sensitive quick release like the wichard 2673 makes this even worse. Even without the big webbing or balls to make the release easier you can activate it by just brushing your hand against it.
...
I personally have the habit to grab the qr close to the harness for stability so I quickly ditched the exposed wichard after activating it that way unintentionally.
We are NOT using the 2673 with 70mm length. Our setup is the 2674 with 80mm length and we have modified the release system, see picture below. Please do not mix our setup with yours or any other setup.

Image



Frankieboy wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:28 am
here is my set up (for foiling only)
When I saw the picture of your personal setup I was really frightened and I would absolutely recommend to check the breaking load of your snap hook. Most of these snap hooks are breaking in less than 200kg! Beside that I totally agree with user evan's remark that you cannot disconnect from your entire system if you have to do. This could be quite dangerous. If you accept this risk it´s up to you, but I thought I have to say that in order to be always responsible in kiteboarding.

Stay healthy!

Ciao

Rainer Kauper
---------------------
KAUPER-XT
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sedelito (Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:41 pm)
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sedelito
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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby sedelito » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:56 pm

Ok thanks Rainer and hope this one will work better!
I still think your bar is the best out there and I will order another one for use with 27meter lines for light wind.

Thanks again for the honest and fast reply!


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