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New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

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Frankieboy
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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Frankieboy » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:13 pm

evan wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:10 am
Frankieboy wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:28 am
here is my set up (for foiling only)

IMG_7692.jpg
How do you disconnect in case of a deathloop or a second kite from someone else stuck in your lines?

This setup is potentially more dangerous than complete lose your kite from an accidental release.
there is a QR so you can flag the kite.
if I have to release the safety line (which never happened in 20 years of kiting) I would be able to disconnect it manually as I only useitfor foiling (underpowerd <25 knots)

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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Hasse » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:28 pm

sedelito wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:41 pm
Just to add I am kiteing here in Sweden maybe 3 days per week mainly on Hf in light winds but alltso with surfboard.
The Wichard is releasing maybe every 5th time of use.
I allways control the connection of it when I start surfing
The depower system is really hard to use but the throw of the bar is good and helps a lot.

Really don't want to thrash talk about Kauper and the reason I'm writing here and not to Kauper direct is that I want people to know about the risks.
Had same problem before but after upgrade on the Wicharcd (thx for great Service Kauper with free upgrade) I don’t have that problem more at all. If you coming over to Klitmøller you try it an.. When the boarder is open again off course,
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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Tomlutz » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:45 pm

a99 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:49 pm
... It has 3 small metal connection parts that means risk of break or some deffect is 3 times higher (or 60 percents less trustfull) than simple quick release.
Have you ever seen a Wichard that broke while kiting / doing high jumps, has this been reported otherwise? Or are you guessing?

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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Kitetwin-1 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:34 am

For my ultra light foiling bar with race lines and a (geniune) wichard shackle I only ride hydro foil strapless, no jumping.I would’t consider stressing out this set up like for normal twin tip riding and jumping

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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby OzBungy » Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:14 am

Tomlutz wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:45 pm
...

Have you ever seen a Wichard that broke while kiting / doing high jumps, has this been reported otherwise? Or are you guessing?
I am not concerned about a Wichard breaking. I am moderately concerned about the Wichard accidentally releasing. I am happy enough that the fabric tab reduces the risk of self release.

Philosophically I can't get past the idea that a system with a single point of failure has a fundamental design flaw. If the Wichard releases, and it can, then the kite is gone. That is a disaster. I have had all other kinds of bars self release, and while it's a nuisance it's not a disaster. The worst case is that the kite crashes onto the leash. In the best case I have been able to ride unhooked reassemble the loop and keep riding.

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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby alowishus » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:15 am

OzBungy wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:14 am
Philosophically I can't get past the idea that a system with a single point of failure has a fundamental design flaw. If the Wichard releases, and it can, then the kite is gone. That is a disaster. I have had all other kinds of bars self release, and while it's a nuisance it's not a disaster. The worst case is that the kite crashes onto the leash. In the best case I have been able to ride unhooked reassemble the loop and keep riding.
I agree. Don't know about a disaster though unless kiting in offshore winds, can be very inconvenient and ruin a session. I'd be hooking up my short leash.

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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Rainer Kauper » Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:41 pm

OzBungy wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:14 am
Philosophically I can't get past the idea that a system with a single point of failure has a fundamental design flaw.
OK I don't want to defend my design now but rather try to explain my idea behind it: First of all I have designed the Pintxo bar for my own needs. This is mostly hydrofoiling and surfing in waves with a surfboard. In these conditions my system has to be safe. 100% safe and comfortable.
But what means safe for me?
In that past years I have never used my normal quickrelease to activate the single frontline safety. Especially since I am riding with the Pintxo bar with a long bar throw this kind of quickrelease seems to be not really necessary for me, but exactly in the unexpected case it´s essential to have such a quickrelease and therefore the Pintxo bar system has such a push away quickrelease in orange colour to be very well visible. On the other hand what I have used many times so far is a quickrelease to get disconnected with one single action from the entire kite, the lines and the bar. This helps me to safe my body and quite often it has also saved my kite in bigger waves. So if I compare the different use of a quickrelease for me it´s more important to have a quickrelease to disconnect me from all my gear in one single action. I'm for sure not the only one to be happy to have such a system when someone else's kite gets caught in your own kite and starts to loop and you have no control on that kite any more. I have had this situation already personally and that inspired me to design the Pintxo bar system. With a normal chickenloop system you have to push away your quickrelease in such a situation first to activate the single frontline safety and after that you have to search for the quickrelease of your safety-leash to get finally disconnected from all. By doing that you could have been already hurt, because to activate two quickreleases at two different positions needs definitely more time than to activate only one single quickrelease and I think on this there is no room for any discussion. I have watched such situations already at some beaches with lots of kiteboarders out there. Especially at the waterfront that happens a lot and then it's even worse, because the beach and other obstacles are more dangerous than swimming in deep water. It just depends on what safety means for you personally.

Let's please just assume that the Wichard is 100% safe without any chance to have any single accidentally releasing so just to find out the pros and cons. What would you miss in such a system where you can get disconnected in one singe action? Would you miss a safety-leash for example which can tangle around your bar ends and makes the kite looping itself? Wouldn´t you be happy to get connected with your entire bar system just by closing a Wichard instead of first pushing the chickenloop on your harness hook and then unhook the carbiner of your safety-leash from the harness, untangle it and then hook in that carabiner to the ring near the quickrelease? In that action I have watched people sometimes doing a false assembly in stressed situations and then the entire safety system is NOT safe any more.

OK you might say now that the Wichard is not 100% safe, but have you ever had a session with the Wichard setup as we use them? Since we have modified the webbing release we can really say that it works well and safe now. Our customers are happy and they feel safe. To me the only problem at the Wichard is sometimes the availability in the quantities we need them. That could be the only reason for me to change anything in my setup. I am fully aware that there are kiteboarders which prefer a normal chickenloop with chickenstick and safety-leash, but that´s absolutely OK for me. When I take a look at our customers they are mostly not beginners and they know what they want. They were waiting exactly for such a system to purchase as they do not have the time or possibility to do it yourself. The Wichard in combination with our webbing release is really safe. My very close kitesurf buddies are all using the Wichard from very low wind hydrofoiling until 50 knots gale and huge waves. None of them has ever had any accidentally releasing. And do you really think I would let go my friends out in 50 knots with a system that is not 100% safe? For sure NOT!

I know that a different system always needs some time to present its benefits, but that´s life of a lateral thinker. I am sure that Greg from BRM has made the same experience like me when he had published his kites and his bar system which has by the way the same safety system like our Pintxo bar. Please believe me I am so happy with my very simple and clean system that I cannot imagine to go kitesurfing with something else and so do many others meanwhile.

I hope this helps you to understand my point of view about a safe bar system. If you feel more safe with another system you should definitely keep your system and I fully respect that. But I kindly ask you to stop saying that our system is not safe.

Thanks and stay healthy. :thumb:

Ciao

Rainer Kauper
--------------------
KAUPER-XT
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Balticrider
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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Balticrider » Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:02 pm

sedelito wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:36 pm
I have the Kauper bar and I really like it but the Wichard is self releasing now and then. Lately twice in 35knots 2,5 meter waves and peak4 4m, putting me in really dangereus situation.
Luckily I had a leash attached to the ring aswell because I don't trust the Wichard but the kite looped 8 times before I gain control of it, and then I was triyng to connect the Wichard for 30min with crazy pull from the kite.
I have fixed the ends of webbing and even shortened it but I still get self release from the Wichard
Alltso the last two knots on the bar are impossible to get inside the bar while depowering, I have shortened the screws as Kauper advised.
First of all: no critic at all, just trying to learn of your situation!
As far as I understand you have been in the same situation as you put your bar setup in the suicide mode on a "normal" bar. You have been connected with your kite via your leash, no safty has been activated... "and then I was triyng to connect the Wichard for 30min with crazy pull from the kite."
Why didn´t you activate in this situation the safty system so that the kite is falling into the single frontline safty? If you was able to try to put the Wichard around the ring you have been able to reach the (orange) safty release. When the kite is falling into the single frontline safty it should be easy to reconect the ring to the Wichard and then to reactivate (ok thats not so easy maybe) your first safty.

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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Adventure Logs » Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:25 pm

Balticrider wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:02 pm
sedelito wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:36 pm
I have the Kauper bar and I really like it but the Wichard is self releasing now and then. Lately twice in 35knots 2,5 meter waves and peak4 4m, putting me in really dangereus situation.
Luckily I had a leash attached to the ring aswell because I don't trust the Wichard but the kite looped 8 times before I gain control of it, and then I was triyng to connect the Wichard for 30min with crazy pull from the kite.
I have fixed the ends of webbing and even shortened it but I still get self release from the Wichard
Alltso the last two knots on the bar are impossible to get inside the bar while depowering, I have shortened the screws as Kauper advised.
First of all: no critic at all, just trying to learn of your situation!
As far as I understand you have been in the same situation as you put your bar setup in the suicide mode on a "normal" bar. You have been connected with your kite via your leash, no safty has been activated... "and then I was triyng to connect the Wichard for 30min with crazy pull from the kite."
Why didn´t you activate in this situation the safty system so that the kite is falling into the single frontline safty? If you was able to try to put the Wichard around the ring you have been able to reach the (orange) safty release. When the kite is falling into the single frontline safty it should be easy to reconect the ring to the Wichard and then to reactivate (ok thats not so easy maybe) your first safty.
I understand why. He’s flying a Peak4 which does not relaunch well and can sink once on the water. Plus the kite will sit there pretty well without any input.

I once again dislike the answer “well I designed the bar for myself”. No one cares. But then if it’s designed only for hydrofoil or surf, you need to put on your website, not appropriate for big air or twintip or something along that regards imo.

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Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby knotwindy » Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:52 am

When I looked at the website I’m pretty sure it said I designed this for the way I ride, not the usual. Wanted it light & simple and it will not be for everyone. Been a while since I read it but that’s what I took from it & remember. So i guess it’s ok with me that he repeats ‘designed for me’ when people complain it’s not the usual. There were plenty of details on the site and I might pick one up if I can find an address to ship to.


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