Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
Tomlutz
Medium Poster
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:17 pm
Local Beach: Switzerland
Gear: TT, Soul 21, Soul 12, Soul 8, Trigger 9, Nobile Zen Foil, Gong Allvator 65M, Pansh Genesis, Concept Air Pulsion 18m
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Tomlutz » Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:35 am

I totally understand that people are hesitant in choosing the Kauper Bar safety setup, because you have to accept a (more or less minimal) risk of accidentally losing your kite completely. I now have a similar release string as the new Kauper solution, and now I consider this risk as negligible - an accidental release never happened to me.

It took me several months before I finally resolved that this setup is good for me, after carefully considering all the different situations I might come into, with the different risks involved, depending on the riding style and the overall pros and cons.

I must say that I had several accidental releases with the conventional quick-release setup, several material failures, and now I am very happy with my decision. I trust the Wichard more than other quickreleases of major brands. I mostly kite on lakes and a complete loss of the kite would be annoying, but not a total disaster. And even in most situations on ocean spots with (side-) onshore winds I think a careful consideration of all pros and cons and possible risks involved depending on your style, the Wichard system is a preferable safety setup. I don't think an accidental total release during a high jump is much worse than a release of a QR while still attached to the safety line - in both cases it will be a free fall. The risk of accidentally activating the release with your thumb while pulling hard the bar, is quasi non existant with the Wichard, while it remains a real risk with the conventional quickleleases.

After all it is also a question of personal taste, and there is no right and wrong.

- Cheers, Tom

User avatar
Frankieboy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 925
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:05 pm
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Frankieboy » Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:50 am

Tomlutz wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:35 am
I totally understand that people are hesitant in choosing the Kauper Bar safety setup, because you have to accept a (more or less minimal) risk of accidentally losing your kite completely.
This is true using the Wichard, not if you use the standard connection they std ship with the bar (rope with QR) which keeps you attached to the flagging line and has a quick release

With the standard connection system you are set like with a chickenloop + leash except you can't unhook

Balticrider
Rare Poster
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:53 am
Kiting since: 2010
Gear: North, Kauper XT
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Balticrider » Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:02 am

Adventure Logs wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:25 pm
Balticrider wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:02 pm
sedelito wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:36 pm
I have the Kauper bar and I really like it but the Wichard is self releasing now and then. Lately twice in 35knots 2,5 meter waves and peak4 4m, putting me in really dangereus situation.
Luckily I had a leash attached to the ring aswell because I don't trust the Wichard but the kite looped 8 times before I gain control of it, and then I was triyng to connect the Wichard for 30min with crazy pull from the kite.
I have fixed the ends of webbing and even shortened it but I still get self release from the Wichard
Alltso the last two knots on the bar are impossible to get inside the bar while depowering, I have shortened the screws as Kauper advised.
First of all: no critic at all, just trying to learn of your situation!
As far as I understand you have been in the same situation as you put your bar setup in the suicide mode on a "normal" bar. You have been connected with your kite via your leash, no safty has been activated... "and then I was triyng to connect the Wichard for 30min with crazy pull from the kite."
Why didn´t you activate in this situation the safty system so that the kite is falling into the single frontline safty? If you was able to try to put the Wichard around the ring you have been able to reach the (orange) safty release. When the kite is falling into the single frontline safty it should be easy to reconect the ring to the Wichard and then to reactivate (ok thats not so easy maybe) your first safty.
I understand why. He’s flying a Peak4 which does not relaunch well and can sink once on the water. Plus the kite will sit there pretty well without any input.

Ok. Sorry, but now I have to be critical. We are discussing here safty issues of the Wichard, while, by the same time people are using kites where you better don´t use the safty system because otherwise the kite could sink?
And this happens in situations like:"... in 35knots 2,5 meter waves and peak4 4m, putting me in really dangereus situation."

Breze
Medium Poster
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:53 pm
Local Beach: Bavarian Lakes
Style: Freeride
Gear: Ram Air & Tubes, TT & Foil
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Breze » Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:12 am

First of all, i`m not using the Kauper bar. I have the same system with a moded 70mm wichard, not the 80mm kauper uses. I built me a similar webbing strap for activating the safety of the wichard.
The wichard itself is stronger than most QR. It can rotate. To close the wichard it can be done one handed- perfect.
It releases 100% , sand, ice... doesn`t matter. No hidden insight parts that can rotten away. Clean & simple.
The only negative thing is the tiny amount of throw to activate , only few mm. With a classic ball&pin system the throw is equal to the pin length.
Until now i had no accidental opening of the wichard, but in the past i had a few with classic systems. Snowkiting with a lot of bulky cloth at the body. Light wind battle relaunch with smimming lines around, swimming with the board, semi lying on the board, unintended hitting with body parts...
The other difference of both systems: pull vs push.
Pull system is sensitiv with hitting something. The minimal size of the moving part of the wichard is very unlikley to hit something.
The design of the safety strap itself has to be right. Former ball-, line with ball systems have more amount of surface to be pulled accidentialy.
There, the very simple strap has an advantage, but it must be smoth , no melted frays forming a hubbel wich can can get caught and the beginning of the strap must be a few mm away of the wichard clip.
This was reported from the Kauper system . Rainer himself warned about that. So as you can see the Wichard- strap system is sensitiv , perhaps more sensitiv as a ball- pin solution with long pin and strong rubbers, but there is no untwisting unless you install a swivel .
I will test the wichard- Kauper system for a while with a short leash ( no waves) then i decide if i am willing to take the risk but i think i can live with it.
The risk is 5mm against 2-3 cm throw of the activation system and pull vs push
my 2 ct

Tomlutz
Medium Poster
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:17 pm
Local Beach: Switzerland
Gear: TT, Soul 21, Soul 12, Soul 8, Trigger 9, Nobile Zen Foil, Gong Allvator 65M, Pansh Genesis, Concept Air Pulsion 18m
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Tomlutz » Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:14 am

Frankieboy wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:50 am

With the standard connection system you are set like with a chickenloop + leash except you can't unhook
Any conventional system with a separate leash has the disadvantage that you need a solution where you can block the font line with the safety line attached, if you don't use a 5th line, or quasi 5th line with the flysurfer infinity bar. This is usually done by a stopper ball of stopper triangle, the front line is blocked by the little knot where it is connected to the front line safety, where it causes friction and tear, sometimes not visible. I once observed the line to be half torn, immediately replaced it, and I don't like this set-up anymore. There are systems around which are less prone to wear at this point, but I still consider it as a flaw in design. - Tom

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2433
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana, SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, SST 5m, Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/101/105cm masts with 637/420 695/425 590/330 679/450 wingsets, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Moses 590/647/330 $690, 80cm alu mast $260
.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 195 times
Been thanked: 271 times

Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby grigorib » Thu May 28, 2020 3:17 pm

I flew 5m and 7m Kauper Mavericks static previously and I finally had a chance to actually ride the 9m two days ago.
The wind was about 10-12 knots, I rode Moses 695/425 with Micro board and had the kite on 50cm bar with 23m lines and KISS chickenloop.
It performed great, stayed in the air well and only thing I wasn’t used to is lack of inertia in the kite when you send it other way or loop it in transitions - it needed to have more of line tension to be kept in control. Must be because of lower kite weight.

Very nice kite, can recommend.
These users thanked the author grigorib for the post:
joekitetime (Thu May 28, 2020 3:22 pm)
Rating: 8.33%

User avatar
Rainer Kauper
Medium Poster
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:58 am
Local Beach: Mallorca Beaches
Style: Riding nice waves & Hydrofoil
Gear: Maverick Kites
Pintxo Bar
Brand Affiliation: Kauper XT
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 28 times
Contact:

Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Rainer Kauper » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:12 pm

Leash at the Wichard

Here are my latest thoughts about using a leash on the Wichard if you think there is a need to do that. Very important for me is that I do not have to do without the untwist function of the flying lines. The Pintxo Bar always comes with the Bar Connector. Exactly this part can be used as a leash to secure the Wichard if you want to do that. The Bar Connector is short enough in length to be still able to grab the orange quick release and activate the Single Frontline Safety (SLS). It is also very easy to attach the Bar Connector to the Wichard as the following pictures show.


Image

Image

Image



To do this please put a larks head knot (the same knot which you use to attach the flying lines to the kite) around the fix part at the Wichard and pull it very tight. The necessary loop for the larks head knot is already there at the end of the Bar Connector. To secure the knot please sew a few stitches with firm sewing thread through the knot to prevent the knot from lifting open when there is no load on the line. The sewing thread does not have to be sailing thread, but should be stable. If you can't sew it yourself and only stick your fingers with the sewing needle, your wife, the grandmother or the nice girl in the neighbourhood will be happy to help. :wink:

For kiting you then hook in the Wichard into the metal ring same as before and now please also hook in the rocker arm at the red ball of the Bar Connector into the metal ring. This means that the bar cannot be be lost completely accidentally if the Wichard is opened or opened unintentionally. If you want to get rid of everything quickly you first trigger the Wichard and then pull the red ball towards your body and you are immediately free of everything. It doesn't really take much longer than the total release I preferred in just one move. I always have everything right in front of me and see what happens.

I hope that the uncomfortable feeling can be eliminated with the Wichard skeptics and the untwist function of the flying lines is also retained. :D


Ciao

Rainer Kauper
-----------------------

faklord
Frequent Poster
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:03 pm
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby faklord » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:25 pm

That’s a neat solution!
I wonder if a drop or 2 of cyanoacrylate glue would be easier than a stitch to lock the leash in place on the Wichard?
I often used it to lock knots in slippery dyneema.

alpaia
Rare Poster
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 9:15 pm
Local Beach: monteynard
Favorite Beaches: kerhiilio almanarre leucate
Style: relaxed
Gear: naish kites diy boards
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby alpaia » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:14 pm

Thanks Rainer for proposing that solution with detailed instructions on locking the knot in place.

I understand people are concerned about one single release separating the kite alltogether, it is the same potential issue with the BRM bar.

I use that type of system too (mini leash to secure in case the total release is activated accidentally) on crowded spots but don't find it very practical,
because to separate from the kite two actions are needed which makes it more complicated.

Now with the mini leash it is not far from the old style wichard release - just having a ring attached to depower rope in the wichard which becomes the main QR and mini leash attaches to flag out safety line - that would be shorter even, and a two stage release.

Only kidding we understand your bar has two loaded front lines so it is not compatible, and it is safer to have push-away as the main QR.

Also it is good you remind earlier that the first safety is the long depower throw of 60cm which almost fully depowers the kite so less need to release the QR.

User avatar
Rainer Kauper
Medium Poster
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:58 am
Local Beach: Mallorca Beaches
Style: Riding nice waves & Hydrofoil
Gear: Maverick Kites
Pintxo Bar
Brand Affiliation: Kauper XT
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 28 times
Contact:

Re: New hydrofoil / wave kite and bar: Kauper-XT

Postby Rainer Kauper » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:39 am

alpaia wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:14 pm
I use that type of system too (mini leash to secure in case the total release is activated accidentally) on crowded spots but don't find it very practical,
because to separate from the kite two actions are needed which makes it more complicated.
I fully agree with you as I prefer myself a single action release, but I also understand other riders like to have a second security on their system. Beside that you have everything right in front of you and so the second action will not make a big difference. It´s much quicker that way to release completely than all the other systems with normal chickenloop and long leash.


faklord wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:25 pm
I wonder if a drop or 2 of cyanoacrylate glue would be easier than a stitch to lock the leash in place on the Wichard?
In the German spoken Oase forum a User has posted another way to attach the Bar-Connector and use it like a short leash:

Image

I like really this way. :thumb:

Ciao

Rainer Kauper


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests