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DIY Neo Strutless?

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NYKiter
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DIY Neo Strutless?

Postby NYKiter » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:34 pm

A buddy of mine who has a quiv of BRMs removed the struts from an old Caution kite...said it flew EXACTLY like a BRM cloud...

Anyone do the same to the Neo? If so how was it?

(who wants to spend over a grand on a BRM?)

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Re: DIY Neo Strutless?

Postby Jyoder » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:04 am

You can get used BRM clouds for very reasonable prices. The older C2 models are still great foiling kites for surf/carve style.
Example: I have a c2 9m for sale for $200.

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Re: DIY Neo Strutless?

Postby NYKiter » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:24 am

I hear the C2s are bad. C5 minimum.

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Re: DIY Neo Strutless?

Postby lederhosen » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:49 am

In another thread about cutting struts someone recommended to try to fly the kite with the struts uninflated.

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Re: DIY Neo Strutless?

Postby longwhitecloud » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:48 am

it is easy to chop them off with scissors - so much lighter without all teh struts and bladders - will fap tho when depowering - way it is tho.

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Re: DIY Neo Strutless?

Postby jumptheshark » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:37 am

Depends on the kite. I've started a little hobby of trying to find specific kites that suit strut removal. I have clouds to compare to, so went into it expecting to put up with some flapping and maybe some loss of performance, but have been pleasantly surprised. Clipping off the struts and starting with only the LE inflated makes it pretty easy to pick what needs to stay. Inflate those struts and try again until the kite is flying the way you want. Have taken struts off three kites now and none of them flap as much as my bagged out clouds. I plan to do more. Have a Fuel that flies perfectly as a two strut down from five. Have a OR razor that flies perfectly as a two strut down from four, and have a BWS noise that flies just fine with no struts down from three. That kite has quite a bit of dacron on the TE, it doesn't flap at all, even in cranked turns. It does jellyfish a bit when flying on just the front lines when powered up, so you learn to keep a little rear line tension at all times and you just know it's not going to like being really overpowered. Had my first session on it strutless yesterday and it was great, relaunched without issue. All kites that lose struts are only appropriate for a much lower wind range than originally intended. I used to take the BWS out starting at 17 knots (8m). Now its strictly for foiling in 10-15. Next up will be a Wainman Hawaii.

I think flat kites will flap a lot and am primarily interested in deeper lower aspect shapes. If you wanna race, you gotta spend the bucks, but if you wanna freeride foil around, there are loads of options that will work with fewer struts.

For reference, the BWS went fro 3.2 kg down to 2.4 kg, which makes a significant improvement in light wind flying character. On the OR Razor I unpicked stitches and re sewed the canopy. On the non splitstrut fuel I just had to unpick some stitching as the canopy was sewn separately. On the BWS I just cut the struts off so I didn't have to re sew, so there are multiple ways to get it done. I have also removed all unnecessary scuff guards. Three big rubber name plate ones on the BWS that combined are almost 200 g. The Wainman I am going to do next has 12 scuff guards that are all coming off. Should be able to get that one from 2.6 kg down under 2. That seems to be the magic benchmark. Anything under 2kg flies really nicely in light air and reverse launches well, negating most of the need for scuff guards in the first place.
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Re: DIY Neo Strutless?

Postby Jyoder » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:28 pm

NYKiter wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:24 am
I hear the C2s are bad. C5 minimum.
Beware the hype. C2s are still great kites, just not the hot fashion item that the new models are.

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Re: DIY Neo Strutless?

Postby jespin4845 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:32 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:37 am
Depends on the kite. I've started a little hobby of trying to find specific kites that suit strut removal. I have clouds to compare to, so went into it expecting to put up with some flapping and maybe some loss of performance, but have been pleasantly surprised. Clipping off the struts and starting with only the LE inflated makes it pretty easy to pick what needs to stay. Inflate those struts and try again until the kite is flying the way you want. Have taken struts off three kites now and none of them flap as much as my bagged out clouds. I plan to do more. Have a Fuel that flies perfectly as a two strut down from five. Have a OR razor that flies perfectly as a two strut down from four, and have a BWS noise that flies just fine with no struts down from three. That kite has quite a bit of dacron on the TE, it doesn't flap at all, even in cranked turns. It does jellyfish a bit when flying on just the front lines when powered up, so you learn to keep a little rear line tension at all times and you just know it's not going to like being really overpowered. Had my first session on it strutless yesterday and it was great, relaunched without issue. All kites that lose struts are only appropriate for a much lower wind range than originally intended. I used to take the BWS out starting at 17 knots (8m). Now its strictly for foiling in 10-15. Next up will be a Wainman Hawaii.

I think flat kites will flap a lot and am primarily interested in deeper lower aspect shapes. If you wanna race, you gotta spend the bucks, but if you wanna freeride foil around, there are loads of options that will work with fewer struts.

For reference, the BWS went fro 3.2 kg down to 2.4 kg, which makes a significant improvement in light wind flying character. On the OR Razor I unpicked stitches and re sewed the canopy. On the non splitstrut fuel I just had to unpick some stitching as the canopy was sewn separately. On the BWS I just cut the struts off so I didn't have to re sew, so there are multiple ways to get it done. I have also removed all unnecessary scuff guards. Three big rubber name plate ones on the BWS that combined are almost 200 g. The Wainman I am going to do next has 12 scuff guards that are all coming off. Should be able to get that one from 2.6 kg down under 2. That seems to be the magic benchmark. Anything under 2kg flies really nicely in light air and reverse launches well, negating most of the need for scuff guards in the first place.

which struts on the razor, the outer two?

i love foiling with the razor for some reason, I'm sure there are plenty of people that would disagree with me, but i fucking love it...its a heavy kite in under 12 knots thou and still keep a one stouter 10 for those winds...

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Re: DIY Neo Strutless?

Postby joekitetime » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:36 pm

Hi there. I have a bunch of wainmans and an extra 7m. I'd like to consider strut removal as well. I know the kites fly w/o because from time to time a strut valve will leak and I will come in and notice a flat strut! Didn't realize it till I came in. Curious about your opinion on the wainmans (remove all 3? Fly first w/3 flat struts to test? Fly w/only center strut?) Thanks!

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Re: DIY Neo Strutless?

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:06 pm

I think the outer struts are the ones to cause flapping, if removed.

As it seems all onestrut or strutless kites flap when looped tight and depowered some (or just depowered when too windy), so one must assume removing these will make them flap.

BUT, so what, no issue as it doesnt matter, you get used to this, and only an issue when looped tight, but not when riding on a hydrofoil :thumb:

I love the idea to turn normal really good well behaved kites that can perform in ridiculous lots of wind, into better kites for hydrofoiling, simply removing the struts :naughty:

8) Peter


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