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Increasing Downwind Speed

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juanpasala
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Increasing Downwind Speed

Postby juanpasala » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:03 pm

Hi Guys,

Came here for a little riding advise.
After learning the basics of foiling, got myself a couple flysurfer Souls and a 2017 Banga hydrofoil to get into higher speed riding and messing arround with the local racers.
Kind of managed to get the hang of it, reaching speeds of 17-19 knots whilst going upwind, and 29-32 kntos whils going upwind. Was a simple process, edge hard and hold as much power as possible whilst going up, and get the bar in and hold for dear life whilst going downwind.
Seeing that I was kind of getting closer to the racers, decided to get proper gear to compete, so I bough a 111 Levitaz Bionic and a couple Flysurfer Sonic Race Kites. With this and the same technique I had, I managed to push my average upwind speeds to the 21-24 Knots range, but my downwind speed came down to the 25-29 Knots, so almost 5 knots down from what I was managing with my old equipment which is pretty frustrating.
Obviously, the pros dont have this type of problem, as they reach much higher speeds downind with almost the same type of equipment.

So, do you guys have any advice on how I can accelerate a bit more whilst keeping good reach angles and my downwind legs??

BWD
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Re: Increasing Downwind Speed

Postby BWD » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:14 am

Since you give speeds i guess you have a gps watch or similar device. Look into apps that let you analyze your vmg also. It may be you are better in vmg downwind even though speeds are less.

But my hunch would be you are slow because you are trying to ride deeper angles than the soul/race foil setup likes.
Or you are just not used to foil kites yet?

Due to shallow water and lack of jibing skill i have taken the other route; from a zeeko setup with standard wing (up to 30kts, painful crashes) to a ketos 1200cm wing and 70cm mast. This way I can soak really deep angles, carve around and not exceed 20 kts without deliberate effort. Water is so much softer at 15 kts than 25!

I will admit now and then I miss the speed, best luck improving yours.

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Re: Increasing Downwind Speed

Postby AndersP » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:57 am

Do you have a big enough kite? Do you gradually build up your speed before going deep downwind? Maybe oversheeting the kite?

Just my thoughts.

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Re: Increasing Downwind Speed

Postby elguapo » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:11 am

what were the speeds on the Bionic flying the souls?

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Re: Increasing Downwind Speed

Postby evan » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:33 am

Why did you switch out the banga for Levitaz? Don't know the details on banga, but Levitaz Bionic isn't the most easy race foil. The bigger 2018 stabiliser is an improvement but there are way more forgiving foils on the market. Maybe you just need to learn how to ride your Levitaz, it takes time to get used to it and find the position that works for you.

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SparD
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Re: Increasing Downwind Speed

Postby SparD » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:21 pm

evan wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:33 am
Why did you switch out the banga for Levitaz? Don't know the details on banga, but Levitaz Bionic isn't the most easy race foil. The bigger 2018 stabiliser is an improvement but there are way more forgiving foils on the market. Maybe you just need to learn how to ride your Levitaz, it takes time to get used to it and find the position that works for you.
I would not have made the switch from Banga to Levitaz Bionic too.

Sonic Race is an excellent upwind kite but isn't the best downwind kite. Are your friends on R1v2 or R1v3 ? because they are the fastest downwind IMO.

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Re: Increasing Downwind Speed

Postby juanpasala » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:09 pm

SparD wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:21 pm
evan wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:33 am
Why did you switch out the banga for Levitaz? Don't know the details on banga, but Levitaz Bionic isn't the most easy race foil. The bigger 2018 stabiliser is an improvement but there are way more forgiving foils on the market. Maybe you just need to learn how to ride your Levitaz, it takes time to get used to it and find the position that works for you.
I would not have made the switch from Banga to Levitaz Bionic too.

Sonic Race is an excellent upwind kite but isn't the best downwind kite. Are your friends on R1v2 or R1v3 ? because they are the fastest downwind IMO.
Switched it because I broke to wings near the mast junction, Not jumping, just putting too much pressure on the legs, LEvitaz seemed more sturdy so I decided to make the switch.
I have a friend with a R1V3, will see if i can borow it to try and push the speeds, but I m stil guessing that something is missing from my technique :)

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Re: Increasing Downwind Speed

Postby Heimo » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:39 am

maybe its just about approaching apparent wind in downwind-direction. When i drive downwind on a foilkite - there are 2 ways - one is just getting dragged into the wind direction with keeping the kite between stalling and rising to the edge which is very comfortable but not faster then the wind itself is blowing.

the other one is more interesting:

You try to change direction not so fast from rectangular to wind to downwind and always keep the kite more back in the windwindow - to use apparent wind on downwind - its a feeling like you would "overtake" your kite. For me - its not possible this way to go directly downwind, but a slightly different angle, the apparent wind keeps your speed up. Works much better on my FS Sonic 1 than on my hyperlink - which has to to with the much higher aspect ratio of the Sonic.

On my lake - where the windspeed alters a lot - also the wind-direction, its not so easy to keep the system running.. It should be much easier on places with constant wind.


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