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590/633/683/790 Confused

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Re: 590/633/683/790 Confused

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:43 pm

Flyboy wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:42 pm
I think the website looks fine ... it's the way they've chosen to categorize the wings that's confusing.

My comments on this, in general:

It goes for most brands, the "wing choice" and descriptions, are confusing.

IMO we as users, are the only ones to know what a wing is "good" for, as it is extremely individual, besides changing hugely over time what works and what is so last year :roll:

Apart from the marketing part, as PR seek to describe their products to be good for "everything", instead of categorizing too much.

This is normally a bad thing for us users with other products, as we get confused.

But with hydrofoils it makes sense not to be very specific, actually it would maybe be better NOT to write what they are for, as the brands themeselves can not know really, because it is extremely individual liking, and also changes fast :wink:

So instead of being annoyed by the "confusing" descriptions, turn it around and use you own and others experience instead, and be happy we got so many choices, much better :thumb:

8) Peter
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Re: 590/633/683/790 Confused

Postby Flyboy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:00 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:43 pm
Flyboy wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:42 pm
I think the website looks fine ... it's the way they've chosen to categorize the wings that's confusing.


IMO we as users, are the only ones to know what a wing is "good" for, as it is extremely individual, besides changing hugely over time what works and what is so last year :roll:
The problem with this is that "we" don't know ... at least I don't. Kite foiling is new, it's difficult, & the accompanying equipment development & obsolescence is ferocious. It reminds me of the early days of windsurfing ... & kitesurfing. It was hard to know if the difficulties you were encountering were due to the limitations of the equipment, or your own lack of ability.

I don't think many people have had the opportunity to try out a variety of different foils, so the input from those who have, is valuable.
Last edited by Flyboy on Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 590/633/683/790 Confused

Postby TomW » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:35 pm

Look at Naish's new 2020 wings, their naming convention of Sq. Cm and simple usage recommendation. It's a good example of how to do it simply.

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Re: 590/633/683/790 Confused

Postby grigorib » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:59 pm

Wouldn't it be nice to have:
a) a lineup of mast lengths
b) two fuselages - kite/surf/wake/sup fuselage and windsurf fuselage compatible with any mast. (for stabless I'd say a wing mountable onto mast directly)
c) wings and stabilizers compatible with any fuselage
d) marking of wings as area/thickness/AR
e) À la carte choice of setup with top recommended setups for each discipline. If you buy a full set or an extended set you get a discount on total package

I wonder how that would sell

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Re: 590/633/683/790 Confused

Postby Foil » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:33 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:43 pm


But with hydrofoils it makes sense not to be very specific, actually it would maybe be better NOT to write what they are for, as the brands themeselves can not know really, because it is extremely individual liking, and also changes fast :wink:

So instead of being annoyed by the "confusing" descriptions, turn it around and use you own and others experience instead, and be happy we got so many choices, much better :thumb:
I agree, and for example used the Moses web site only to see if the 790 wing fitted my fuse, that was not clear to me, slightly confused why it came without the S suffix like the 683s.
The reason to get the wing was purely driven by the others who gave it reviews on here, and matching what they said to what i was looking for.
result!
it arrived today, :D

but its strong winds here for the next week.
Bugger! :angryfire:

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Re: 590/633/683/790 Confused

Postby Flyboy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:54 pm

Foil wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:33 pm

but its strong winds here for the next week.
Bugger! :angryfire:
My heart goes out to you ... :allbegood:

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Re: 590/633/683/790 Confused

Postby grigorib » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:54 pm

Foil wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:33 pm
...
I agree, and for example used the Moses web site only to see if the 790 wing fitted my fuse, that was not clear to me, slightly confused why it came without the S suffix like the 683s.
I think the "s" was to distinguish surf wing from windsurf 683 wing and since the 838 fuselage and its mount spacing became (thankfully!) history the 633/790/873/900 wings don't really need that special marking.
Foil wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:33 pm
..
but its strong winds here for the next week.
Good problem to have :)
What wing are you riding in strong winds?

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Re: 590/633/683/790 Confused

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:02 pm

grigorib wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:59 pm
Wouldn't it be nice to have:
a) a lineup of mast lengths
b) two fuselages - kite/surf/wake/sup fuselage and windsurf fuselage compatible with any mast. (for stabless I'd say a wing mountable onto mast directly)
c) wings and stabilizers compatible with any fuselage
d) marking of wings as area/thickness/AR
e) À la carte choice of setup with top recommended setups for each discipline. If you buy a full set or an extended set you get a discount on total package

I wonder how that would sell
Definitely :thumb:

This is a Moses thread, so sorry for the off topic, but Ketos can tick above points :D

Modular, 3 mastlengths, the trim/footstrap position is not changed if you change wing(s), fuselages for foil and sup/windfoil but still compatible, all wings are marked with area and span (thus AR given), discount on full packages for different disciplines.
This has been their "goal" with the products since the very start c",)

Having said that, their website is not less confusing at all (on the contrary), nor what you should choose - same issue as it is us as customers that dictate what works, and it changes rapidly :roll:

8) Peter
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Re: 590/633/683/790 Confused

Postby elguapo » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:20 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:43 pm
Flyboy wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:42 pm
I think the website looks fine ... it's the way they've chosen to categorize the wings that's confusing.

My comments on this, in general:

It goes for most brands, the "wing choice" and descriptions, are confusing.

IMO we as users, are the only ones to know what a wing is "good" for, as it is extremely individual, besides changing hugely over time what works and what is so last year :roll:

Apart from the marketing part, as PR seek to describe their products to be good for "everything", instead of categorizing too much.

This is normally a bad thing for us users with other products, as we get confused.

But with hydrofoils it makes sense not to be very specific, actually it would maybe be better NOT to write what they are for, as the brands themeselves can not know really, because it is extremely individual liking, and also changes fast :wink:

So instead of being annoyed by the "confusing" descriptions, turn it around and use you own and others experience instead, and be happy we got so many choices, much better :thumb:

8) Peter
can only speak for myself..
i just want moses to list what is compatible to what.

i do not believe it needs to be super fancy or complicated...
they can hire a local college kid for $50 euro or pay a virtual assistant $10 to post the same simple table to each page.

grigorib
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Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/91/105cm masts 590/683s wings, Tim's 36" "woody", Slingshot Micro 3'6", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot SST 5m 2018 $500, Slingshot SST 6m 2018 $600, Slingshot SST 10m 2017 $500, Core XR4 10m $840, Core XR4 13.5m $970, Core XR4 17m $1060, Slingshot Turbine 5m 2017 like new $450, Slingshot Turbine 15m 2018 like new $1100, BROkite carbon board 140x44 like new complete $650, Slingshot Rally 6m 2017 like new $530, Slingshot Guardian 20" brand new $290
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Re: 590/633/683/790 Confused

Postby grigorib » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:22 pm

elguapo wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:20 pm
Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:43 pm
Flyboy wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:42 pm
I think the website looks fine ... it's the way they've chosen to categorize the wings that's confusing.

My comments on this, in general:

It goes for most brands, the "wing choice" and descriptions, are confusing.

IMO we as users, are the only ones to know what a wing is "good" for, as it is extremely individual, besides changing hugely over time what works and what is so last year :roll:

Apart from the marketing part, as PR seek to describe their products to be good for "everything", instead of categorizing too much.

This is normally a bad thing for us users with other products, as we get confused.

But with hydrofoils it makes sense not to be very specific, actually it would maybe be better NOT to write what they are for, as the brands themeselves can not know really, because it is extremely individual liking, and also changes fast :wink:

So instead of being annoyed by the "confusing" descriptions, turn it around and use you own and others experience instead, and be happy we got so many choices, much better :thumb:

8) Peter
can only speak for myself..
i just want moses to list what is compatible to what.

i do not believe it needs to be super fancy or complicated...
they can hire a local college kid for $50 euro or pay a virtual assistant $10 to post the same simple table to each page.
I did it for free :)
Well...one day and that day might never come I’d appreciate a position at one of the kite companies, but until that day it’s a gift

viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2400810&p=1050132 ... t#p1050132
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