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A fix for the loose screw Moses Fuselage to Mast

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Foil
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A fix for the loose screw Moses Fuselage to Mast

Postby Foil » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:56 am

This has been mentioned a few times before
Recently in the Moses wing confusion topic.

The annoying fact that the forward most connecting Allen head 6mm bolt works itself loose no matter how tight or how often you re-tighten it.
Spring washers don't work, Locktite blue has very limited success,.
And it happens to near everyone who has a Moses carbon mast, and any Moses Fuselage from all years, use any wing, race to the big ones it happens,
The longer you sail for the more loose it becomes, never the 2nd bolt a few cm to the rear, just the one nearer the front situated in the fuselage recess for securing the mast.
Last time out for 3 hours on a hard wavy session the offending bolt was so loose I spun it out with my fingers, even though the identical second bolt was still good and tight,
I have bought brand new bolts, new washers, including spring lock ones, even tried no washer, and slightly longer bolts, dry thread, greasy thread, fingers crossed and finally a bedtime prayer, no effect, :angryfire:

So here is my fix that does work,
Tools I needed to do it in second picture.
a bit out of order I know, but easy to understand
It works.
I can now sleep at night :thumb:

[/IMG] Image
Image

Image
Image Image Image
[IMG]https://s18.directupload.net/images/190807/257wjpqr.jpg
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KVL
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Re: A fix for the loose screw Moses Fuselage to Mast

Postby KVL » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:55 am

If you press the new bolt into the exiting bolt, wont it just slowly destroy the screw thread on the initial bolt?

Which again will destroy the screw tread in the mast.
Which in the end cant be tightened at all.
Which will result in only a single bolt connect it all.
Which will make it all more loose and unstable.
Which will make you sleep even worse than you do now..

?

Foil
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Gear: Groove Skate 130, naked carbon,gold stripes
101cm Moses Carbon mast
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Re: A fix for the loose screw Moses Fuselage to Mast

Postby Foil » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:37 pm

KVL wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:55 am
If you press the new bolt into the exiting bolt, wont it just slowly destroy the screw thread on the initial bolt?

Which again will destroy the screw tread in the mast.
Which in the end cant be tightened at all.
Which will result in only a single bolt connect it all.
Which will make it all more loose and unstable.
Which will make you sleep even worse than you do now..

?
Not al all,
look inside where the long bolts sit before hitting the mast fixing threads, you will see there is 15 mm of the bolt thread that never gets into the mast it sits in a deep thick walled hole, that is where the grub screw is centered, this is why you need to be accurate when measuring the depth of the side hole for tapping the 6mm thread, its plenty big enough and sits half way between the meaty thick part, which is great for this fix.
so no worries about damaged threads getting into the mast threads. :thumb:

I am not sure if the smaller fuselage that the smaller wings fit on carry the same large meaty cross section as the Onda fuse does.
if not then I would most likely use a 4mm grub screw for that fix, or smaller if necessary.
but I don't own that fuse anymore.
I tell a lie, I do. I have the old pointy end one
but I have altered the profile where the wing sits to accept gong wings, sadly it sits doing nothing in my garage, old dust collector at best :roll:

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Re: A fix for the loose screw Moses Fuselage to Mast

Postby alowishus » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:38 pm

Foil wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:56 am
This has been mentioned a few times before
Recently in the Moses wing confusion topic.

The annoying fact that the forward most connecting Allen head 6mm bolt works itself loose no matter how tight or how often you re-tighten it.
Spring washers don't work, Locktite blue has very limited success,.
And it happens to near everyone who has a Moses carbon mast, and any Moses Fuselage from all years, use any wing, race to the big ones it happens,
The longer you sail for the more loose it becomes, never the 2nd bolt a few cm to the rear, just the one nearer the front situated in the fuselage recess for securing the mast.
Last time out for 3 hours on a hard wavy session the offending bolt was so loose I spun it out with my fingers, even though the identical second bolt was still good and tight,
I have bought brand new bolts, new washers, including spring lock ones, even tried no washer, and slightly longer bolts, dry thread, greasy thread, fingers crossed and finally a bedtime prayer, no effect, :angryfire:

So here is my fix that does work,
Tools I needed to do it in second picture.
a bit out of order I know, but easy to understand
It works.
I can now sleep at night :thumb:
Nice work. So is the grub screw flush with the side of the fuse when screwed in all the way?

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Re: A fix for the loose screw Moses Fuselage to Mast

Postby salvino » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:53 pm

I just put downward pressure on front wing as I’m finishing tightening that screw. It seems to stay secure by doing this as it’s not loose after session.
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oregonkiter
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Re: A fix for the loose screw Moses Fuselage to Mast

Postby oregonkiter » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:27 pm

I have the 107 cm Slingshot/Moses Ghostwhisper mast with the 633 setup. I have never had any of the mast bolts loosen up at all in three years. It might be interesting to compare the difference in the 2017 Moses vs 2019 Moses masts to see what's different re the forward bolt hole.

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Re: A fix for the loose screw Moses Fuselage to Mast

Postby TomW » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:52 pm

Mine never gets loose

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Re: A fix for the loose screw Moses Fuselage to Mast

Postby tkaraszewski » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:57 pm

oregonkiter wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:27 pm
I have the 107 cm Slingshot/Moses Ghostwhisper mast with the 633 setup. I have never had any of the mast bolts loosen up at all in three years. It might be interesting to compare the difference in the 2017 Moses vs 2019 Moses masts to see what's different re the forward bolt hole.
My 91cm Moses mast has never had this problem either, with any of the three fuselages I've used with it.

Foil
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101cm Moses Carbon mast
71+90cm Slingshot masts with moses adaptor
Moses- 633 and 683s and 790 wing sets
Ozone V4 Reo 6/8/9
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kites -15/13/9
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Re: A fix for the loose screw Moses Fuselage to Mast

Postby Foil » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:40 pm

alowishus wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:38 pm
Foil wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:56 am

Nice work. So is the grub screw flush with the side of the fuse when screwed in all the way?
fits nice and flush,
and worked perfectly today at New Brighton, big wind and big seas, so it was given a good work out.

Interestingly 5 moses uses there all have this problem, and one guy thought it was just a problem he had,he seemed happy he was not alone.
both 91 and 101cm masts and both type of fuses, any wing combination, very strange phenomenon.

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Re: A fix for the loose screw Moses Fuselage to Mast

Postby Horst Sergio » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:26 pm

salvino wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:53 pm
I just put downward pressure on front wing as I’m finishing tightening that screw. It seems to stay secure by doing this as it’s not loose after session.
Even if not using Moses stuff, but had a foil with a similar connection:
This is the way I also would recommend to do it, pre tighten the connection, then load the wing (board with foil upside down on a usable soft ground) with full body weight as it is during usage (also carefully move wingtips) and finally tighten the front screw under this load in the best case with a torque wrench.
If you always do this from first usage, the conection should always stay tightened. If you already have used your foil parts with a loose screws, the connection may be already unvisibly damaged and could also get loose if you then start to do it the right way.

Spring washers, Locktite blue, new bolts, new washers, including spring lock ones, no washer and slightly longer bolts, dry thread, greasy thread, fingers crossed ...
all will not necessarily work if not loading it as described and especially if the connection is already slightly damaged.


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