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Moses 720

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Foil
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Posts: 811
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: New brighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool
Favorite Beaches: holidays - Flag beach and Matas bay + sotavento on fuerteventura
Home - New Brighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 130, naked carbon,gold stripes
101cm Moses Carbon mast
71+90cm Slingshot masts with moses adaptor
Moses- 633 and 683s and 790 wing sets
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kites -15/13/9
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very dusty Nobile 50/50 twin tip
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Re: Moses 720

Postby Foil » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:27 am

NYKiter wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:27 pm
I sold off my 633 last week after riding the 683S for several months now...I went back to the 633 last month and it was too draggy...
sold your 633 :o
that is a move I won't be making.
my 683 is more likely to go, and that's not very likely.

steve will be receiving his 720 wing very soon so speed data will be available as soon as,
he also has the 633 and 683, and has access to my 790,I will test out the speed of the 790 soon, but i don't expect anything much over 20mph.
the 633 and 683 on the 101 mast with all surfaces including the mast given the stealth treatment (all matt surfaces)
and locked down stance in 3 straps and comparing the wing speed using all kites sizes from 15mtr to 5mtr, all foil kites in appropriate winds for each size.
the speeds were very consistent over the long test time collecting the data, just about 2 knots between them on every test.
however two things did affect the top speed numbers.
using a small 5mtr foil kite in strong winds added another 1 knot for both wings.
and the other surprise was adding another knot when the mast was treated to the flat matt finish, which added an extra smooth sensation when pushing the upper limit.
the average top speed before matting down the mast was 633=24kts, 683= 26knts.
so where will the 720 wing sit??
that's the question for me before I consider buying one, I am lucky to be able to try before I get too excited.

The top speed I have seen gps verified when using a 633 wing was achieved by one of my other foiling buddies
flipping 40mph|| :clap:
yes, and it raised a big cheer from the beach.
only trouble was he reached this speed as he was flying through the air after being thrown from the board at the same time as looping the kite in very strong winds of 35mph gusts. but its still just over 40mph!

dave1986
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Re: Moses 720

Postby dave1986 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:55 pm

Any more feedback on the 720 wing for kitesurf, as a wing to compliment the 633?

Sfollis
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Re: Moses 720

Postby Sfollis » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:39 pm

The 720 arrived today, but won’t have chance until Friday to get out on it 😕. I expect the 720 to be as fast if not faster than the 683 but with with improved stability?????

FYI, I hit 21knots on Colin’s 790 wing. At this speed it was like being on a rail track! I’m sure I can get it up to 23 knots on a windy day with a longer mast and short lines. Therefore, by no means is it a slow wing! The fastest I’ve been on the 633 is 26 knots and 28.5 on the 683. So all in all not a massive difference between them.

dave1986
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Local Beach: South Wales
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Gear: Naish Torch 12m/14m
Naish Ravens 8m/10m
Slingshot Fuel 6m/7m
North Evo's 6m/9m/12m
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Re: Moses 720

Postby dave1986 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:10 pm

I would certainly expect the 720 to be faster than the 683s, being both higher aspect ratio and 25% smaller surface area, and thinner profile (Shame that moses don't state the profile thickness or volume of their wings like other brands do)

720 wing stats:
SmartSelect_20190909-195633_Chrome.jpg
683S wing stats:
SmartSelect_20190909-195704_Chrome.jpg
I avoided buying the 683s wing as it seems too similar in size and shape to the 633 wing. But I'm thinking (hoping) that the 720 will be different enough to be worth considering and a good wing for high-speed straight-line cruising and upwind exploring.... then the 633 will be my more playful wing for waves and carving etc..
Attachments
SmartSelect_20190909-195909_Chrome.jpg

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 811
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: New brighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool
Favorite Beaches: holidays - Flag beach and Matas bay + sotavento on fuerteventura
Home - New Brighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 130, naked carbon,gold stripes
101cm Moses Carbon mast
71+90cm Slingshot masts with moses adaptor
Moses- 633 and 683s and 790 wing sets
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kites -15/13/9
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone compact V4 bars,click in, 15/17/20/+23 mtr lines
very dusty Nobile 50/50 twin tip
massive grin
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Re: Moses 720

Postby Foil » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:40 am

dave1986 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:51 pm
I'm considering either the 720 or 683S wing as a faster alternative to my 633 wing.

Does anyone have any direct comparisons between these 2?
It's landed :thumb:
Will now start testing when conditions permit and Steve gets back from work, as it's his wing.
Hopefully Friday

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Sfollis
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Re: Moses 720

Postby Sfollis » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:34 am

I’ve been out twice on the Moses 720 with 101mast.
7B4B6D6E-A21B-498B-AD99-7281F56ECA7E.jpeg
First go, I was using my 15m Ozone UL in 8knots of wind. The foil was very stable and smooth. However the lift was too much for my 68kg mass and the mast was already fully back in the Groove skate 130 board. I also already have my front straps fully forward. If was able to control the lift more by heading upwind, which the foil does slightly better than the 633/683.

As you can see the 720 is much thinner than the 790, but don’t be fooled as there is a lot of lift.
67FFA2EF-5F1C-4C57-9A6E-83DEF4D1DFC9.jpeg
Maximum speed on the first test was 25.1 knots but considering there was only 8 knots, this wasn’t too disappointed as I also knew there was loads more left in the foil if I could reduce the front foot pressure/lift.

I added a ~2 degree shim to the rear underside of the the stabiliser wing. You can see the red shim in this photo (in between the fuselage and stabiliser wing)
7C24C1C0-AC7E-4D8F-8718-11847F2570E8.jpeg
Day 2, using the new setup made s big difference. The wind speed was ~17 knots and I opted for my 7m on 17m lines. I was slightly underpowered and never had to use any de-power. OMG, the 2 degree shim made a big difference (perhaps too much, and will now need try different thicknesses/angles). The foot pressure wasn’t perfect but as the foil is super stable even on a broad reach I managed to hit an impressive 28.0 knots (52km/h) on multiple of occasions. Looking at the GPS data, this is the first time on a foil board I have seen plenty of >25knot plateaus. I’m sure with a slightly better setup a max speed of 30 knots (the holy grail of speed on water) is achievable.

Even with the shim fitted, the pick up onto the foil was immediate. The lowest speed I could foil at was 6 knots where the 633 can go as low as 4 and the 683 with 5 (oh, and the 790 2 knots!! So not a massive difference at the bottom end between the 683, but definitely quicker and certainly more stable than it.

Not once did I experience wing tip cavitation, this is definitely a benefit of the turned down wing tips. The turned down wind tips also make it feel like your on rails going up wind equally as down wind.

Heel to toe side carving is fast, but the turning radius is slightly longer than the 633.

Not sure when my next go will be, but if there is anything else I can comment on or try out next time let me know.

BTW it jumps and lands well (nice and light). Rodeo is a little harder.
5C554C9B-0D23-4276-A7AF-7CC244D1B2F2.jpeg
FF68656F-9F26-4E0C-9EEF-0C87558FDE63.jpeg

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NYKiter
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Re: Moses 720

Postby NYKiter » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:53 pm

Nice review, thanks.

Can you comment on steep wave drops next time your in it?

dave1986
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Kiting since: 2003
Local Beach: South Wales
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Rhosneigr
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Gear: Naish Torch 12m/14m
Naish Ravens 8m/10m
Slingshot Fuel 6m/7m
North Evo's 6m/9m/12m
13m Ozone Chrono V3 Ultralight
Naish Thorn Twin Tip
Moses Onda 633/91cm mast.
Groove Skate Carbon L
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Re: Moses 720

Postby dave1986 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:15 pm

Nice review! Sounds like it's a keeper then!

Labskaus
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Re: Moses 720

Postby Labskaus » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:48 pm

Good review it was like the same what my feeling for it was :thumb: , by the way ,i hammerd my 720 on a Rock in the Bay (the only one :angryfire: ) it was very stable .I fixed the cut with epoxy,
and ride again with no problems . Now i am going to sand it .

grigorib
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Re: Moses 720

Postby grigorib » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:08 am

How would you compare 720 vs. 590?


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