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Small pocket board - looking for recommendation/advice

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TomW
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Re: Small pocket board - looking for recommendation/advice

Postby TomW » Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:50 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:41 pm
You are rigth Oldman_Dave, short flat boards one can get used to of course.

Its just, my level isnt sufficiently high, and besides this, I see no advantages whatsoever when going shorter than say 110 cm or something, for the average sized, so not my preference.
In short, WHY?

Personal as said, what one prefers.

8) Peter
Totally agree, I've tried 90, 105 110,120, 135.
No benefit to going under 110 unless you have travel or space requirements.
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Re: Small pocket board - looking for recommendation/advice

Postby junebug » Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:56 pm

TomW wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:50 pm
Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:41 pm
You are rigth Oldman_Dave, short flat boards one can get used to of course.

Its just, my level isnt sufficiently high, and besides this, I see no advantages whatsoever when going shorter than say 110 cm or something, for the average sized, so not my preference.
In short, WHY?

Personal as said, what one prefers.

8) Peter
Totally agree, I've tried 90, 105 110,120, 135.
No benefit to going under 110 unless you have travel or space requirements.
I respectfully disagree. I primarily ride a 85cm home build with no rocker. I love the lack of swing weight and the feeling of connection with the foil. Obviously, it doesn't handle touchdowns very well, so I've learned not to touch down very much. Plus, most of my touchdowns are with transitions, where the board is stalled, so I can recover with a loop or an aggressive dive. Also, using such a small board forced me to narrow my stance, which is now down to about 18 inches. With that narrow of a stance, even my SS Micro (106cm) feels huge. I only use the Micro as my light wind board and for when I'm working on new tricks.

I'm strapless and not interested in jumping, for now at least. If I start trying to jump, I can see going up in size, but I will probably never go bigger than 106cm again. Above that, it's just diminishing returns for me.

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Re: Small pocket board - looking for recommendation/advice

Postby Tony » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:26 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:08 pm

This is the downside with too short boards where your front foot is close to the nose :roll:

Fun and light, but some bad downsides also...

If you have a good strong rocker, it will be a lot easier to start, and survive touchdowns - thats the good thing.

But you will also get a horrible stance, where your front foot is higher than the rear, meaning you have to ride with back leg straight and front leg bent - this is REALLY annoying and tiresome, as I've tried this a lot when testing different trim settings and angles and rockerlines on supersmall foilboards.

So you have to decide whether you want a good comfortable ride once up, both legs straight or bent the same, or if you want a board that handles touchdowns better without crashing nose down violently.

One could think that something in between might be the best, but I am not so sure anymore, as then you have downsides from both, horrible starts and touchdowns, and uncomfortable stance :-?

With a tad longer boards, for most this is around 110-120 cm I believe, you can have both, when having aggressive nose scoop, meaning the rocker curve starts just at and goes up and up in front of your front foot position (called nose scoop).

This way it can handle touchdowns, jump landings, waves, and waterstarts perfectly - and at the same time perfect relaxed even stance - you get it all in one so to speak.

Very individual I would think, some might find this uncomfy uneven stance okay, others will live with explosion crashes if they touch down but then have the very best stance so you can ride for hours and hours.

I hope it is clear what I mean, otherwise I could make a simple drawing illustrating.

Has always been a paradox with supersmall boards, and why I mostly avoid riding these.

If you have a super narrow stance, you can simply tilt the board angle a bit up, and you wont have as crooked a stance.
If you hardly never touch down, go for the most comfortable stance instead, board more flat that is.
If you like me are a mere mortal sometimes touching down, often in new transitions, or crashing, a tad longer board only gives you advantages as you can have the best of both above issues :rollgrin:

8) Peter
Peter,

What are your thoughts wrt the Ketos boards? Their sizes (as you know) are 130, 118 and 107. Do you feel the 107 is uncomfortable, forcing the bent front leg?

I have the 130 and could see adding a smaller board, was thinking it would be the 107 but your comments have me thinking.
Seems the 118 would not be much different from the 130.

Thanks
Tony

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Re: Small pocket board - looking for recommendation/advice

Postby stevez » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:09 am

junebug wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:56 pm
I respectfully disagree. I primarily ride a 85cm home build with no rocker. I love the lack of swing weight and the feeling of connection with the foil. Obviously, it doesn't handle touchdowns very well, so I've learned not to touch down very much. Plus, most of my touchdowns are with transitions, where the board is stalled, so I can recover with a loop or an aggressive dive. Also, using such a small board forced me to narrow my stance, which is now down to about 18 inches. With that narrow of a stance, even my SS Micro (106cm) feels huge. I only use the Micro as my light wind board and for when I'm working on new tricks.

I'm strapless and not interested in jumping, for now at least. If I start trying to jump, I can see going up in size, but I will probably never go bigger than 106cm again. Above that, it's just diminishing returns for me.
With you on this one.
I've been riding my homemade 83cm pocket board for the whole season in all types of conditions except for extreme lightwind. Love it and see no reason to go bigger. Have dialed the foot position to exactly where it needs to be. Based on that can probably take another 7 to 10 cms off, which is what I'll do on my next build. I don't think it will affect usability much.

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Re: Small pocket board - looking for recommendation/advice

Postby max » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:51 am

stevez wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:09 am
junebug wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:56 pm
I respectfully disagree. I primarily ride a 85cm home build with no rocker. I love the lack of swing weight and the feeling of connection with the foil. Obviously, it doesn't handle touchdowns very well, so I've learned not to touch down very much. Plus, most of my touchdowns are with transitions, where the board is stalled, so I can recover with a loop or an aggressive dive. Also, using such a small board forced me to narrow my stance, which is now down to about 18 inches. With that narrow of a stance, even my SS Micro (106cm) feels huge. I only use the Micro as my light wind board and for when I'm working on new tricks.

I'm strapless and not interested in jumping, for now at least. If I start trying to jump, I can see going up in size, but I will probably never go bigger than 106cm again. Above that, it's just diminishing returns for me.
With you on this one.
I've been riding my homemade 83cm pocket board for the whole season in all types of conditions except for extreme lightwind. Love it and see no reason to go bigger. Have dialed the foot position to exactly where it needs to be. Based on that can probably take another 7 to 10 cms off, which is what I'll do on my next build. I don't think it will affect usability much.

I fell in love with my 85cm the first time I used it.

I find the 89cm is a bit more forgiving on touch downs as is the 94cm that I am currently riding (a narrow nose unlike the shorter ones that are more rectangular in shape).

Do not see any need to ever go longer (even in lighter breezes).

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Re: Small pocket board - looking for recommendation/advice

Postby lebast » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:27 pm

@at all the short board users (<100cm)

How did the lack of swing weight progressed your riding style?
Can you actually carve harder, jump higher (strapless), spin around more 360 --> 720 in the water/air, ride a wave more aggressive...? Or is it more about the feel that you enjoy?

How do you handle swim in situations with a short board? (in case that happens while using such a short board)
In my experience paddle in surfboard style (kicking with legs) doesn't work with these, since the board just goes submarining when you try to put your hands on them and do the leg kicking. Anyone came up with a technique?

My stance is quite wide with my current foil setup --> 107cm is the smallest board I can use otherwise I am doing a permanent hang five :wink: , so I am curious what your experiences are.

merci,
lebast

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Re: Small pocket board - looking for recommendation/advice

Postby grigorib » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:46 pm

The thing about short boards is to fly the foil. Touchdowns should be rare occasions, which is really easy with medium-large wings.
I don’t think size matters for swing, so 90cm board would ride just as 110cm board. Board weight matters.
Also it’s a good idea to not have a board longer than the mast for travel purposes, unless of course you ride 70cm mast :)

As of stance - mine goes wider upon trying to squeeze more speed so 34” would be the shortest for me
Last edited by grigorib on Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Small pocket board - looking for recommendation/advice

Postby jumptheshark » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:52 pm

I find my stance dictates a lot with respect to the lively ness of my foil. Narrow is great for covering distance, rest, or working on certain transitions where it helps to keep input subtle. As soon as harder carving and more dynamic riding is the goal, a wider stance is a must for me. There is likely an ideal length for grabbing and landing airs that I suspect is a step up from the real micro boards.

I kind of like having just a bit of nose ahead of my front foot. About 15- 20 cm in my wide stance seems to fit my sensibilities. I’m 180cm tall and love the fit of my 109cm board.

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Re: Small pocket board - looking for recommendation/advice

Postby TomW » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:49 pm

Under 110cm swing weight advantage has quickly diminishing returns. Like I said, I made and tested 135, 120,. 110, 105, 90cm boards. 110-105 give 90% of benefits of lower swing weight. Then below, I found dragging out more difficult with submarining board.
If you are tall and have long legs, you might be forced to take narrowed stance on shorter boards.
I'm only 173 cm and have short legs. So even at 90 cm the stance is no probs.

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Re: Small pocket board - looking for recommendation/advice

Postby trod27 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:19 am

I started on 4'6"DC, went to 3'6" DC then to a homemade 37" (94cm) I loved its less swing weight. I bought a 42" Micro. I liked micro but don't need extra length and sold it.
Now I have 2 37" boards. One homemade 37" and a Kanaha Shapes 37"
Strapless and as said smaller board makes you ride foil not board. I ride Moses 683s
Love it


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