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Moses 790 Review

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joekitetime
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Moses 790 Review

Postby joekitetime » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:07 pm

I rode my Moses 790 yesterday for the second time and thought I'd do a quick review.

Housekeeping: winds were light, guessing low teens. twin tip guys out on 14m and 15m, I was on my wainman 7m, buddy of mine was on a 9m and the 590/330 Moses setup. He was doing just fine power wise. I was on the 790/450 and dwarf craft 3'6" and 101cm moses mast...

Foilers are taking over! About 20 folks out yesterday, 18-19 of them foilers! Was riding my 633/450 and the wind started getting really, really light. Thought it would be a great time to go swap the 633 with the 790. While some have said the 683 is 10-20% more efficient than the 633, I'd say the 790 is 10-20% more low end than the 633. I liked the wing. First off, I tried to pretend I was riding the 633. Was carving as hard as I could surf style on the swell which was about 5% more difficult, as the wing is larger and wider. That took a few minutes to adjust to. That is a "slight" downside to me. I dove the kite straight up many times and dropped the bar for "free foil" riding and the foil floated much longer (5-10 seconds) than the 633, which I liked. Starting off was easier than the 633. It popped on a foil quicker and was just a little easier to ride. Stability was 10-20% better. A bit slower, a bit easier, a bit more stable (I know, not that shocking!)

I did a couple speed runs w/the guy on the 590/330. I was only slightly slower, maybe 3-5%m although it was just a casual speed test.

Because the wing is wider than the 633 I did breach the wing tip a few more times than I usually do on the 633 when carving off swell. But I was also able to recover and stay of foil because it is much more forgiving having a lower low end. In side by side to the 633 though the wing is quite a bit wider.

All in all the wing is slightly less playful for carving, more stable, better low end, and longer glide. I could see myself being happy riding this wing rather than the 633. But I do love that 633 and compare most wings to it.
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Labskaus (Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:42 pm) • Foil (Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:48 pm) • grigorib (Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:09 pm)
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dave1986
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby dave1986 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:32 pm

Nice review! So would you say you could drop to 1 smaller kite size with the 790 compared with the 633?

joekitetime
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby joekitetime » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:49 pm

Hard so say. One of my goals is to be able to "nearly" ditch the kite and just ride the foil. When you are up and riding (and pumping, which I failed to mention in the review - by pumping you can add power to the kite which I like) but the only problem I've had only once is that you still need enough kite power to get up and going. I did have another day out on a 9m kite which I could barely keep in the air and had to downloop it constantly to keep from dropping it - it was challenging and I only got up on foil once before I ran out of real estate, then dropped the kite).

So, to answer your question, I think I could have been on my 5m rather than the 7m. But it gets tricky too with larger wings because they are slower and so they generate less apparent wind.

I'm playing with the notion, but wouldn't say I have it figured out.

But yes, when the wind is lighter, the bigger wings do seem to fill the gap rather than putting up a bigger kite.

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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby dave1986 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:06 pm

joekitetime wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:49 pm
Hard so say. One of my goals is to be able to "nearly" ditch the kite and just ride the foil. When you are up and riding (and pumping, which I failed to mention in the review - by pumping you can add power to the kite which I like) but the only problem I've had only once is that you still need enough kite power to get up and going. I did have another day out on a 9m kite which I could barely keep in the air and had to downloop it constantly to keep from dropping it - it was challenging and I only got up on foil once before I ran out of real estate, then dropped the kite).

So, to answer your question, I think I could have been on my 5m rather than the 7m. But it gets tricky too with larger wings because they are slower and so they generate less apparent wind.

I'm playing with the notion, but wouldn't say I have it figured out.

But yes, when the wind is lighter, the bigger wings do seem to fill the gap rather than putting up a bigger kite.
I also wondered about that : a bigger slower wing would make the water-start easier, but would generate less apparent wind.

I would imagine that water-starting is the main problem in Ultralight winds. E.g I wonder whether a Moses 873 would give any benefit in Ultralight winds?

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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby PurdyKiter » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:08 pm

A few weeks ago while thinking about upgrading from a 633 to a 790 someone mentioned "The 790 is for large fat people"
How much do you weigh? I'm 150 soaking wet. If I were to upgrade, and improve on the 633 ride.... I'd want better performance at speeds.

joekitetime
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby joekitetime » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:30 pm

I weigh 160#. Most foilers around me seem to love that 590. It is faster. Do you have the 590? I would say that the 790 was less performance, but if "pushed" can be forced into the same performance as the 633 with a little more cushion. Personally I haven't been able to improve the 633 ride. But I'm also a bit of an oddball compared to the typical kite foiler. My goal is to ride like the guys riding 4'6" sup boards, but rather than paddle in or pump in I lightly use the kite but really ride that foil.

The smaller the foil the more you ride the kite. The larger the foil the more you ride the foil.

I'd have to know what you don't like about the 633 before a wing direction would make sense.

I also found that riding a wing I like on a board that I don't like makes me not like the whole setup. That could be part of the consideration as well.

joekitetime
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby joekitetime » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:39 pm

dave1986 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:06 pm


I would imagine that water-starting is the main problem in Ultralight winds. E.g I wonder whether a Moses 873 would give any benefit in Ultralight winds?
I wonder this as well. I have the 873, may ride it today with this in mind on the same type of comparison.

I'm tempted to say the 873 actually doesn't increase the low wind capabilities, it only changes the ride characteristics. I do think it allows you to fly a smaller kite and is easier to stay on foil. But (against my wishes) I think a larger kite is always going to be more effective as the winds get lighter over a bigger wing. But, also, maybe not. You can pump that 873 which you can't do on the smaller wings as much. It is a direction I'm just beginning to try to figure out - that is, tiny kite being flown like crazy, all over the sky, and pumping the wing and looking for swell to maintain speed. I like to ride this way, then take a break with a big kite and relax and let it do all the work...

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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby Foil » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:09 pm

mmm, this will be interesting.
I have the 790 wing, not used as yet as its been windy every day since I opened the box 8 days ago.

I have a well used 633 and less used 683s

A set of ultra light foil kites from 5mtr to 15mtr.
My board is a relatively high volume 130 groove skate full carbon. the 130 skate is 7cm thick, the smaller groove skates are 5cm thick.

I am hoping the combination of being able to use a small ultra light foil kite with the 790 on the large skate will be a fun thing to use,
the punch from a small foil kite will help the lift up onto the board,
the voluminous board will help with getting that first bit of forward speed,
and the monster 790 wing should pop me up and keep me up in winds that will make the faster smaller ultra light foil kite just great fun to throw around and have some fun.
well that's the hope I have.
the conditions are looking good to try this out over the next 7 days.
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PurdyKiter
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby PurdyKiter » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:22 pm

joekitetime wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:30 pm
I'd have to know what you don't like about the 633 before a wing direction would make sense.
Funny, there's almost nothing I dis-like about my 633/483 setup (other than a burning desire to use my credit card :jump: )

If I wanna get picky I'd comment that I wish the 633 had a smoother ride when I push it up into the speeds of about 18mph and more. But that's why I have my 590.

joekitetime
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby joekitetime » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:00 pm

I hear you. Its been awhile since I rode my 483. I do remember loving the switch to the 450. I did it after another rider with the same setup strongly suggested it, and I was glad. That is a thought for you. It may tame the beast at high speeds. Plus, since the 483 is susceptible to tip damage the 450 would be a great backup wing, or vice versa. It does make the wing more carvy in my opinion.

Just a thought...


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