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Moses 790 Review

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alex 1
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby alex 1 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:15 am

hi, ride the 633 790 and 873 for a while with hq matrixx 2 in sizes 9 12 15 and 18 on shitty gusty laketype spot. Also tried it as mast 71cm

conclusions: the trim is cool, way less frontfootpressure than with gong allvator l or xl wings. much thinner profile, which means you can go much faster... the 873 i already speeded up with my 105kg to 35km/h, the 790 has defenitely less drag and was a bit crazy to handle for the first ride because during jibing in low winds you have tot take care not to go downwimd 20m more than your kite did. pumping from dock does not work with them for me, i have to go to allvator xxl with 2500cm2
but these wings are amazingly efficient in upwind and overall performance, i love to go out in ultra lowwind with the 873 and keep moving with pumping through lussl, hold frontlines with one hand and you are still on foil...gong allvator lifts faster but has speed cap and much more drag, so you can lower both on windfoil and kite 1-2kts..

the 633 is my choice for big wave riding where control, positioning in wave in combination with potential to flee the closeout section is an issue.

i can recommend owning al three, if i had to let go one i would drop the 790 because it does not lower the lowwind of 633 dramatically and needs some speed you can start pumping. my lf impulse had thicker profile and felt pretty similar from lowend concerns, as you see heavier riders need larger gear...

873 tacks awesome, love the fluid manoeverability, checkout the end of this clip where i rode 873
https://youtu.be/0AxZmm9Xbls

regards
alex

keskopesko
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby keskopesko » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:17 pm

What is idea to have 790 wing?

Very light wind, very heavy kiter?
Maybe waves?
To use very small kites?

tnx,
Aleš

elguapo
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby elguapo » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:42 pm

keskopesko wrote: What is idea to have 790 wing?

Very light wind, very heavy kiter?
Maybe waves?
To use very small kites?

tnx,
Aleš
i bought it to replace the my 633.
never put the 633 back after trying receiving the 790.

i kept the 790 for wave/swell riding primarily..and also to "practice" transitions (i prefer another italian setup for speed/freed riding and boosting)
some folks swear by the short masts but they're almost unusuable to me (790 becomes too wide to carve).. i use a 91cm mast...but will probably switch that out to a 111cm whenever i can find a decent condition comet or havok mast for a good price (i prefer having to watch my depth going over a reef vs riding being limited because of riding a midget mast)


my preference is smallest kite i can ride upwind for playing on waves...but can ride the 790 with a 3m peak4 and 9m sonic vmg in the same winds. (i could not say that about the 633)
to me there is no comparison to 633 with downwind stability or pushing speed period (frankly the 633 isnt stable..at all to me.... on speed runs straight downwind on overpowered kites)

Wazza Foil
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby Wazza Foil » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:46 am

All above reviews just prove how each person's fit to equipment varies.
A person's weight, height, skill/experience and local coditions can change everything
For me 683 and 790 on 72 cm mast for both kite and SUP foiling.
Just had a SUP foil session on the 683 as I could not find my 790, wow what a super fast ride and stable.

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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby Foil » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:32 am

first ride out on my 790 wing yesterday.
wind super light, (seagull fart strength)
flat lagoon shallow water.
84cm converted slingshot mast, into moses fuse and 483 stab, groove skate hi volume 130 board
mast in exactly the same position at when using 633.
kite choice for first hour was 13mtr chrono v3 ultralight
my weight 88kg and reducing weekly.
comparison to my Moses 633 wing
Remember the wind was virtually non existent, another very good lightweight foiler was on a 633 with 12mtr soul and very much struggling, dropping kite a few times, and eventually gave up after 30mins of frustrating on/off success finishing with a short swim in with kite down, also a very light and very good female foiler was trying her best on a 633 but with a LEI, she got in a few runs but then the kite fell and game over.

Using the 790, in the lightest airs of the session, chrono 13 v3 ul was less than happy and had to be kept moving!

getting up was possible by pointing straight downwind and looping the kite 2 or 3 times, once up, the wing wanted to keep me there, it is a strange sensation to pop up so quickly at such a slow speed, made even more extraordinary as the tide was flowing directly downwind, robbing me of a few mph.
as board speed slowly and progressively picked up another surprise made me very happy, the upwind angle was much higher than expected, and was locked in, meaning easy to to maintain without bearing off for more speed, in fact to maintain the speed it was easy, very easy to just pump the wing rhymically right down to near the surface and right back up for very long periods,maintaining high upwind angles, great fun!

In such light airs at this time, I found the most rewarding turns came from being very aggressive and slamming the wing round late after downlooping the kite and waiting for the pull from the opposite direction, this was made possible due to the wings near refusal to stall,

a moment or two at zero forward speed, as the wing was pivoted around was possible as the wing only need a tiny bit of forward speed to grip again and maintain my mast height, it took a little while to get this right but felt great when it was working well, that wing just wants to stay up, amazing.
the good forward speed that was generated was even enough to try a few jumps, and to my delight I even landed one attempt on the foil without touching down, that was a big surprise, for me anyways.(still rubbish at foil away no touchdown boosting)

The wind started to slowly increase and as it did the wings limitations came into play.
Before this happened I had returned to shore and put up my much more powerful 15mtr Chrono v3 ultralight, wind was still very light, lagoon was filling in sandbanks surrounding the lagoon were being flooded over, opening up the open sea area to play in.
Off I set for some long "fast" runs out to sea. and-
ok, Fast? this wing does not feel fast,
adequate speed, ok speed, not too bad speed, very smooth speed, safe speed, silky smooth speed.
choose any of the above,
but certainly not very fast feeling, in fairness the very smooth silky speed makes the wing feel slower than other more twitchy, more nimble wings.
(thinking of the 683s wing which feels much faster than the 633 but when compared on the gps it's not that much faster)

30 minutes out along the coastline and I was wishing I was on my 633 as my lack of high speed was frustrating, also the small waves were not fun to try and use at the 690s top speed, (something the 633 is fantastic at) things were starting to go pear shaped, the wing was starting to control me, turning back round in the quickly developing turbulent water was not fun, the now fast moving incoming tide was throwing up little waves everywhere, and making me unable to choose my own direction back, the wing was being lifted far too quickly for me to control, I was riding an angry bull, having to head up to slow down and control the unnerving lift coming from all directions, again I would say the 633 would have been great fun in this water.
but also maybe having a much smaller kite up would have helped a lot as well, I noticed that the other foiler had returned to the water on his 12mtr soul with his 633 and was looking good.
the tables had turned!
Going to toeside was frightening as I could not control the lift at all,
and bearing off deeper was being forced on me to just keep dry and this made things even more scary as to slow down again I needed to harden up which started the "over lifting cycle again"

Today I am out again on the lagoon
690 is going on again, the 13mtr chrono is going up, it offers less lift than my 15mtr, I am thinking the 15mtr may not be the best choice of kite with this wing,
but more time on the 15mtr on flat, still water will confirm this or not.
The wing has well enough lift to get going in impossibly light airs and I feel the massive extra lift of the 15mtr is maybe unnecessary, and less fun to use.
(slower kite and slower wing may be the wrong mix up for more fun)
if there is even a slightly stiffer breeze then the 9mtr chrono v3 ultra light will get used for a try out as I do wonder if small U'Light foil kite and massive wing combo will work, or not.
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richy-c
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby richy-c » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:32 pm

Foil wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:32 am
first ride out on my 790 wing yesterday.
wind super light, (seagull fart strength)
flat lagoon shallow water.
84cm converted slingshot mast, into moses fuse and 483 stab, groove skate hi volume 130 board
mast in exactly the same position at when using 633.
kite choice for first hour was 13mtr chrono v3 ultralight
my weight 88kg and reducing weekly.
comparison to my Moses 633 wing
Remember the wind was virtually non existent, another very good lightweight foiler was on a 633 with 12mtr soul and very much struggling, dropping kite a few times, and eventually gave up after 30mins of frustrating on/off success finishing with a short swim in with kite down, also a very light and very good female foiler was trying her best on a 633 but with a LEI, she got in a few runs but then the kite fell and game over.

Using the 790, in the lightest airs of the session, chrono 13 v3 ul was less than happy and had to be kept moving!

getting up was possible by pointing straight downwind and looping the kite 2 or 3 times, once up, the wing wanted to keep me there, it is a strange sensation to pop up so quickly at such a slow speed, made even more extraordinary as the tide was flowing directly downwind, robbing me of a few mph.
as board speed slowly and progressively picked up another surprise made me very happy, the upwind angle was much higher than expected, and was locked in, meaning easy to to maintain without bearing off for more speed, in fact to maintain the speed it was easy, very easy to just pump the wing rhymically right down to near the surface and right back up for very long periods,maintaining high upwind angles, great fun!

In such light airs at this time, I found the most rewarding turns came from being very aggressive and slamming the wing round late after downlooping the kite and waiting for the pull from the opposite direction, this was made possible due to the wings near refusal to stall,

a moment or two at zero forward speed, as the wing was pivoted around was possible as the wing only need a tiny bit of forward speed to grip again and maintain my mast height, it took a little while to get this right but felt great when it was working well, that wing just wants to stay up, amazing.
the good forward speed that was generated was even enough to try a few jumps, and to my delight I even landed one attempt on the foil without touching down, that was a big surprise, for me anyways.(still rubbish at foil away no touchdown boosting)

The wind started to slowly increase and as it did the wings limitations came into play.
Before this happened I had returned to shore and put up my much more powerful 15mtr Chrono v3 ultralight, wind was still very light, lagoon was filling in sandbanks surrounding the lagoon were being flooded over, opening up the open sea area to play in.
Off I set for some long "fast" runs out to sea. and-
ok, Fast? this wing does not feel fast,
adequate speed, ok speed, not too bad speed, very smooth speed, safe speed, silky smooth speed.
choose any of the above,
but certainly not very fast feeling, in fairness the very smooth silky speed makes the wing feel slower than other more twitchy, more nimble wings.
(thinking of the 683s wing which feels much faster than the 633 but when compared on the gps it's not that much faster)

30 minutes out along the coastline and I was wishing I was on my 633 as my lack of high speed was frustrating, also the small waves were not fun to try and use at the 690s top speed, (something the 633 is fantastic at) things were starting to go pear shaped, the wing was starting to control me, turning back round in the quickly developing turbulent water was not fun, the now fast moving incoming tide was throwing up little waves everywhere, and making me unable to choose my own direction back, the wing was being lifted far too quickly for me to control, I was riding an angry bull, having to head up to slow down and control the unnerving lift coming from all directions, again I would say the 633 would have been great fun in this water.
but also maybe having a much smaller kite up would have helped a lot as well, I noticed that the other foiler had returned to the water on his 12mtr soul with his 633 and was looking good.
the tables had turned!
Going to toeside was frightening as I could not control the lift at all,
and bearing off deeper was being forced on me to just keep dry and this made things even more scary as to slow down again I needed to harden up which started the "over lifting cycle again"

Today I am out again on the lagoon
690 is going on again, the 13mtr chrono is going up, it offers less lift than my 15mtr, I am thinking the 15mtr may not be the best choice of kite with this wing,
but more time on the 15mtr on flat, still water will confirm this or not.
The wing has well enough lift to get going in impossibly light airs and I feel the massive extra lift of the 15mtr is maybe unnecessary, and less fun to use.
(slower kite and slower wing may be the wrong mix up for more fun)
if there is even a slightly stiffer breeze then the 9mtr chrono v3 ultra light will get used for a try out as I do wonder if small U'Light foil kite and massive wing combo will work, or not.
I do wish youd buy a wind meter 😂 We want to know the actual wind speeds 💨😂😜Seagul fart etc depends on n size of seagul. I mean are you referring to albatros size or one of those small black headed types? 😜

Foil
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby Foil » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:18 pm

second day on the 790.
same flat water lagoon, slightly more wind today, the 2 other foiling guys there were using 12mtr souls and 633 wings, super lightweight very good foiling female on her 633 and the same lei kite as yesterday and today was going well, practicing tacks and and rodeo riding,
if I were using my 633 the wind available would be right for my 15mtr chrono, but as I wanted to use the 790 wing then the 13 chrono went up.
that was the right choice as it turned out, as the wind was dropping slowly all afternoon to not much above a seagull fart.

After yesterday's fright at the loss on control using my 15mtr chrono on the choppy confused turbulent water out at sea, it was such a relief to enjoy over 3 hours of superb foiling on this very interesting 790 wing, the difference today on the 13 mtr chrono was made more enjoyable due to the practice and feel for the wing from yesterday,

I explored the jumping potential of the wing today, as yesterday I had a few tries and even landed a foil away landing, only my second ever, in around 100 boosts,
and today I can't stop smiling.
I made around 60-80 decent height boosts in over 3 hours, and near the end of a very tiring boosting session I was foiling away from 3 out of every 4, a few right at the end were 4 from 4, and mostly without touching the water with the board, the lagoon is just wide enough to complete a maximum of 4 boosts in a row, I never bought this wing thinking it would be great for boosting, just the opposite actually, so this has happened without any forward planning, Ttip is now totally redundant.
the 790 wing and 13 chrono v3 ul makes a fantastic boosting combination.

Nothing else to report really from today as it was all dedicated to successfully landing my boosts- job done!
Thank you moses for this 790 front wing, AKA the boosting weapon of choice for me in very light winds.

Foil
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Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 130, naked carbon,gold stripes
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Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kites -15/13/9
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby Foil » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:44 pm

3rd day on the 790,
open sea, flat conditions, seagulls fart wind yet again for the first hour or two, so against my better judgment the 15 chrono went up on its 23 mtr lines,
and then for the next 30 minutes I confirmed to myself that the 15mtr is not suited to this wing,
the wing is not the fastest to carve around in the normal downloop carve way, and when using my 15mtr chrono V3 UL, my method of waiting for the kite to pull me quickly and aggressively the other way and pivot the wing round without dropping down to the water, just won't work,
slowish carving wing and slowish large foil kite just don't mix well, unless you just want something to get you up and flying in next to nothing,and nothing much else.
on went the 13mtr chrono UL V3.
game changer! absolutely fabulous combination, the 13 is very quick compared to the 15mtr, and even though it's much less powerful, the 790 wings lift makes up for the loss in pure 15mtr foil grunt.
It was a joy the use the combination, boosting again was awesome, foiling away from most jumps, in winds that must have made the guys stuck on the beach with their Ttips wonder what was happening,
after 3 hours the wind had increased to 15 mph ( checked with the weather station just off the beach at RAF valley) Ttips were now hitting the water, the water was still flattish and the 790 wing powered by the 13 chrono was now boosting high, well high enough for me at the moment anyways. made me shout yeharr on every silly high jump.
for the last half hour I changed out the 790 wing for the 633, and I have to say in many ways they felt exactly the same in the stiffer winds, the 633 was however so much faster and sure footed deep off wind, upwind was similar but the 790 felt better locked in, jumping was very similar,take offs were easier on the 633, but the landings were much easier on the 790, smoother water entry on landing and more gentle rise and take off.

Another fun thing to do on the 790 was to gain maximum speed slightly off wind, take the kite up quickly and let go of the bar, completely, hands behind your head, or out to the side flying arms out sort of thing,
and see how long you can keep going before the kite starts to drop, great fun!

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omg
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby omg » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:55 am

Thanks for the reviews guys!

So, what would I (80kg) gain with 790 compared to 633 which I currently ride when used with 12m light LEI?

Would I get more lowend to the point the kite doesn't fly anymore?

And lastly, for slower waves, which one would you pick?

Foil
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Home - New Brighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 130, naked carbon,gold stripes
101cm Moses Carbon mast
71+90cm Slingshot masts with moses adaptor
Moses- 633 and 683s and 790 wing sets
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kites -15/13/9
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Re: Moses 790 Review

Postby Foil » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:43 am

omg wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:55 am
Thanks for the reviews guys!

So, what would I (80kg) gain with 790 compared to 633 which I currently ride when used with 12m light LEI?

Would I get more lowend to the point the kite doesn't fly anymore?

And lastly, for slower waves, which one would you pick?
You will definitely get going very much more easily in very light winds, the winds where a loop or two or even 3 is needed, also if you have a larger 130 high volume board then that will help a lot as well.
Once you up then with a fast light lei kite you will find it much easier to stay up,
but if your lei is heavy and slow then you risk the lei falling and not relaunching,
I did drop my 15 chrono yesterday in silly light air, (the tip hit the water on a lazy loop where the large caving arc of the 790 wing clashed with the kites large carving arc, a case of too late to grab a leader, my fault),
my 12mtr ozone Alpha lei would have had no chance at re launch,
however after a good 5 minutes of not panicking and little gentle pulls whilst swimming backwards the kite un tied itself and let me reverse the kite up for a spin round to face the sky and gentle centerline pulls had the kite back in the air looking very wet with a stream of water pouring out of each wing tip as I tilted the kite from side to side to empty it,
sailed to shore and put it away, and changed to my 13 chrono, faster kite equalled lots of fun and never a moment of kite dropping danger.
downside is the 15 had to be washed at home and is currently hung up under my canopy with my kite drying hair dryer stuck up its outlet Zip.
the good thing is with a little practice you can learn to pivot the wing around on its axis to very good effect in very light airs, its very stable spinning on its axis.


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