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Zeeko screws to secure rear stabilizer and fin keep loosening

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mbs
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Zeeko screws to secure rear stabilizer and fin keep loosening

Postby mbs » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:06 am

On my white and blue foil, there are two screws that pass through the rear stabilizer wing, then through fuselage, and then secure in the fin. It looks like there is similar thing on the other aluminum foils such as white and green.

I am now on to my third fin because the screws keep losing their grip In the fin. On the second one I actually wound up losing the stabilizer wing because the screws came out in the water. For a second time I’ve had to reorder parts with expensive shipping from Poland to US.

I am considering now to glue the screws and permanently affix the stabilizer wing and fin to the fuselage. Previously I had been taking everything apart after each session for easier transport in my car and giving everything a rinse and storing disassembled to avoid potential anodization (stainless screws/ aluminum fuselage).

Is anybody else running into this problem? Is there anything I could do differently to have those screws maintain their grip in the fin? Does anybody have experience with gluing screws in place?

I would love it if someone from Zeeko could chime in. BTW - I love the foil and I have progressed from learning to comfortably riding on it and I think it’s a great product. This is the only small issue I’ve had.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Matt.

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Re: Zeeko screws to secure rear stabilizer and fin keep loosening

Postby 3InletsWindsports » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:05 am

The screws are into the G10 thread and as such work fine but a little extra care is needed not to over tighten.

The only other way besides over tightening to damage threads is impact and then usually a side impact.

mbs
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Re: Zeeko screws to secure rear stabilizer and fin keep loosening

Postby mbs » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:07 am

Especially after replacing the first fin, I was very careful not to overtighten on the second one. I have occasionally hit bottom but never a side impact.

There isn’t much thread on those machine screws to bite into the fin holes. That’s why I’m thinking of maybe adding some glue now that I’m on to my third fin. It’s not the screw threads that get damaged, it’s the fact that there isn’t a threaded insert in the fin, and the caliber of the fin holes maybe seem to increase slightly over time.

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Re: Zeeko screws to secure rear stabilizer and fin keep loosening

Postby hongchew » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:55 am

The G10 fin's hole will become loose after some use. Put in metal tab is the only secured fix. Zeeko and infact all fin makers just being cheap not using metal tabs

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Re: Zeeko screws to secure rear stabilizer and fin keep loosening

Postby Foil » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:13 am

try red Loctite, its for problems just like yours

google the name(as below) its cheap and works if you aim to keep the parts together

To make it simpler for the consumer, our products are available in many different grades to cater to a broad array of applications, from auto maintenance and
boat maintenance to a wide rande of household product repair. These different grades are color-coded to help you identify one threadlocker from another The color refers to the actual substance, but all the bottles are red in color. The red bottle is actually a Loctite trademark; it’s what visually distinguishes Loctite® threadlockers from any other brand.

So what is the difference between the Red, Blue, Green and Purple threadlocker?

red threadlockerLoctite® Red Threadlocker is the highest strength. This product cures fully in 24 hours and is available in both a liquid and as a semisolid anaerobic. The red products are so powerful that they require heat to be disassembled. A primerless grade red threadlocker is also available.

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blue threadlockerLoctite® Blue Threadlocker is of medium strength. Again this product cures fully in 24 hours and can be dissembled with hand tools. In addition to being available in a liquid and a semisolid, there is also Loctite® QuickTape® 249™ Threadlocker; the one and only of its kind globally. A primerless grade blue threadlocker is available as well.

[You might also be interested in: Blue Threadlocker Basics]

Green threadlockerLoctite® Green Threadlocker is recommended for locking preassembled fasteners, e.g. electrical connectors and set screws. The product is categorized as medium-to-high-strength for wicking. It is also available in a liquid form, cures in 24 hours and can be removed with heat and hand tools.

purple threadlocker

Loctite® Purple Threadlocker, also known as Loctite® 222™, has become one of our most successful products. Loctite® 222™ cures in 24 hours. It can also be used on low-strength metals such as aluminum and brass. This offers a lot of flexibility to the user. Find customer testimonials and more information on our purple threadlocker in “When and Why to Use Purple Threadlocker“.

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If you are still unsure about which threadlocker to use, on which applications, download our FREE “Do it Right” User’s Gude.

For more information on Loctite® threadlockers, including resources and product selector charts, click here

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Re: Zeeko screws to secure rear stabilizer and fin keep loosening

Postby mbs » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:47 pm

Foil wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:13 am

They are used only for metal to metal applications.

I would need to bond the metal to the fin material (?G10) if I choose to permanently fasten it. Acrylic glue? Resin? or go with the red lock-tite anyway?
hongchew wrote: The G10 fin's hole will become loose after some use. Put in metal tab is the only secured fix. Zeeko and infact all fin makers just being cheap not using metal tabs
Does anyone have experience with putting threaded female inserts into fins? Could I even find one to accept those screws that would fit in the fin holes?

Ive never had fins get loose on any other boards in nearly 16 yrs of kiting. I think it may be the fact that I was taking the screws out and putting back in with every session, and rather than using a straight screwdriver, the provided tool has multiple allen keys on a single handle. Since the handle isn't perfectly in-line with the tool, theres a slight wobble when turning the screw. Perhaps that is contributing to damaging the hole over time?

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Re: Zeeko screws to secure rear stabilizer and fin keep loosening

Postby Foil » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:42 am

mbs wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:47 pm
Foil wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:13 am

They are used only for metal to metal applications.

I would need to bond the metal to the fin material (?G10) if I choose to permanently fasten it. Acrylic glue? Resin? or go with the red lock-tite anyway?
hongchew wrote: The G10 fin's hole will become loose after some use. Put in metal tab is the only secured fix. Zeeko and infact all fin makers just being cheap not using metal tabs
Does anyone have experience with putting threaded female inserts into fins? Could I even find one to accept those screws that would fit in the fin holes?

Ive never had fins get loose on any other boards in nearly 16 yrs of kiting. I think it may be the fact that I was taking the screws out and putting back in with every session, and rather than using a straight screwdriver, the provided tool has multiple allen keys on a single handle. Since the handle isn't perfectly in-line with the tool, theres a slight wobble when turning the screw. Perhaps that is contributing to damaging the hole over time?
this unexplained loosening phenomenon is common on other brand wings to mast connections,
however I have not experienced the rear screws coming loose, only the front screw on the front wing, happened every single time, to mine and many others, I have now fixed this but my fix is hard to do without the tools, see my separate thread on this subject. viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2403884
i did use loctite at first and it worked, but having to take the wing off and on and waiting for it to cure made it useless for me,
it maybe worth trying as its very cheap for a bottle, £2 a bottle delivered off ebay, I used the blue loctite.

if your rear wing is actually G10 I cant see you damaging the threads, g10 glass is pale green normally, and so tough its very hard to damage, you can give it almost any sort of abuse and it will be fine, and threads in G10 are so strong I don't see you ever stripping them, but I am referring to the genuine G10 glass not the cheap standard stuff found being used to make the fins on cheap and not so cheap Ttips.
genuine Ttip fins made of G10 just last forever grinding them up any pebble beach bottom,

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Re: Zeeko screws to secure rear stabilizer and fin keep loosening

Postby hongchew » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:39 am

Yes my machinist friend put in a pair of stainless insert for me on the zeeko fin, snug and tight, now I don't worry about it coming off
mbs wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:47 pm
Foil wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:13 am

They are used only for metal to metal applications.

I would need to bond the metal to the fin material (?G10) if I choose to permanently fasten it. Acrylic glue? Resin? or go with the red lock-tite anyway?
hongchew wrote: The G10 fin's hole will become loose after some use. Put in metal tab is the only secured fix. Zeeko and infact all fin makers just being cheap not using metal tabs
Does anyone have experience with putting threaded female inserts into fins? Could I even find one to accept those screws that would fit in the fin holes?

Ive never had fins get loose on any other boards in nearly 16 yrs of kiting. I think it may be the fact that I was taking the screws out and putting back in with every session, and rather than using a straight screwdriver, the provided tool has multiple allen keys on a single handle. Since the handle isn't perfectly in-line with the tool, theres a slight wobble when turning the screw. Perhaps that is contributing to damaging the hole over time?

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Re: Zeeko screws to secure rear stabilizer and fin keep loosening

Postby downunder » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:47 pm

Hmm,

So many great suggestions.

But, are we overthinking?

Drill through the fuse and put a little countersink SS nut on the other side. Or brass. Resin. Done.

Cabarinha has see-through polycarb fins with small inserts in them for M6.

mbs
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Re: Zeeko screws to secure rear stabilizer and fin keep loosening

Postby mbs » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:43 pm

downunder wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:47 pm

are we overthinking?

... put a little countersink SS nut on the other side. Or brass. Resin. Done
The screws first go through rear stabilizer wing, then the fuselage, then terminate in a fin below the fuselage. The screw doesn’t bite in the wing or the fuse, it’s the screw to fin connection that is supposed to hold. There’s nowhere to countersink a nut.
hongchew wrote: Yes my machinist friend put in a pair of stainless insert for me on the zeeko fin, snug and tight, now I don't worry about it coming off
Can I borrow your machinist friend?


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