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Huge board, huge wing, small kite

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Slappysan
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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby Slappysan » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:07 pm

I find that a smaller board is actually better for riding a big wing in light winds.

I ride my 250 sqin NP Glide L foil in 7-15 knots with my Peak 4 5m. The key to water starting it in 8 knots is being able to sink the board while standing on top of it. I use a Slingshot DC 4-6 board and use 1-2 loops just to drive the whole kit under water (need head deep water for this). Then you're just standing on top of the board thigh deep in the water and you do 1-3 more loops to get the rig moving laterally and generating lift to come up out of then water then on to the foil.

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:22 pm

Got the exact opposite experience only...

If the board sinks knee or waist deep, there is NO WAY to get up and ride, in low steady winds - only a gust might help you, and it have to be lasting, as you need to overcome the drag from half of your body under the water, which is the killer, as huge drag and with almost zero speed you can not surface nomore :(

A bigger board, more volume or more area, will be able to just stay in or on the surface a lot easier, and with almost no drag compared to part of your body under the water - meaning even the slightest puff, or peak when looped, and you might get up foiling.

This is the reason my 118 can not ride nearly as low as the 130, even with a really big wing.

And with an even bigger board, this is even more apparent.

Out quite often in conditions on the limit for the given kite and wing and board, this is why it is so evident when changing boards, how much of an impact it has (for me).

Odd why so many of us, got contradictory experiences here, there must be some other difference we havent spotted yet, when comparing :roll:

8) Peter

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby slowboat » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:39 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:22 pm
Got the exact opposite experience only...

If the board sinks knee or waist deep, there is NO WAY to get up and ride, in low steady winds - only a gust might help you, and it have to be lasting, as you need to overcome the drag from half of your body under the water, which is the killer, as huge drag and with almost zero speed you can not surface nomore :(

A bigger board, more volume or more area, will be able to just stay in or on the surface a lot easier, and with almost no drag compared to part of your body under the water - meaning even the slightest puff, or peak when looped, and you might get up foiling.

This is the reason my 118 can not ride nearly as low as the 130, even with a really big wing.

And with an even bigger board, this is even more apparent.

Out quite often in conditions on the limit for the given kite and wing and board, this is why it is so evident when changing boards, how much of an impact it has (for me).

Odd why so many of us, got contradictory experiences here, there must be some other difference we havent spotted yet, when comparing :roll:

8) Peter
I agree with this. I used to think that with a good sized foil, the board didn't matter that much but it matters ALOT. When the whole thing sinks, it is really hard to start without a gust. If your board is big enough to not sink, you have a much better chance of a successful, underpowered water start.

Having said that, the board really doesn't have to be huge to not sink.

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:00 am

Slappysan wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:07 pm
I find that a smaller board is actually better for riding a big wing in light winds.

I ride my 250 sqin NP Glide L foil in 7-15 knots with my Peak 4 5m. The key to water starting it in 8 knots is being able to sink the board while standing on top of it. I use a Slingshot DC 4-6 board and use 1-2 loops just to drive the whole kit under water (need head deep water for this). Then you're just standing on top of the board thigh deep in the water and you do 1-3 more loops to get the rig moving laterally and generating lift to come up out of then water then on to the foil.

PS: What do you weigh?
Amazed that you can ride in 7 knots with a 5 m2 Peak, impressive even if it pulls like a 7 m2 :thumb:

No chance for me, even with a 10 m2 LEI, works only in 8 knots.

I need a 12 in 7 knots, or a higher aspect foil kite bigger than 8 m2, but I am 77 kg :wink:

8) Peter

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby drsurf » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:30 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:00 am
Slappysan wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:07 pm
I find that a smaller board is actually better for riding a big wing in light winds.

I ride my 250 sqin NP Glide L foil in 7-15 knots with my Peak 4 5m. The key to water starting it in 8 knots is being able to sink the board while standing on top of it. I use a Slingshot DC 4-6 board and use 1-2 loops just to drive the whole kit under water (need head deep water for this). Then you're just standing on top of the board thigh deep in the water and you do 1-3 more loops to get the rig moving laterally and generating lift to come up out of then water then on to the foil.

PS: What do you weigh?
Amazed that you can ride in 7 knots with a 5 m2 Peak, impressive even if it pulls like a 7 m2 :thumb:

No chance for me, even with a 10 m2 LEI, works only in 8 knots.

I need a 12 in 7 knots, or a higher aspect foil kite bigger than 8 m2, but I am 77 kg :wink:

8) Peter
I agree with Slappysan. I ride a 110cm Axis Tray board which is 50cm wide with a Moses 633 1250 sq cm foil. It's only a 2.5kg board and with my 65 kg weight I don't have to sink the board to get up on the foil in 8 knots. The thing Slappysan and I have in common is we're using 5m Flysurfer Peak4 kites. In such light wind, with a little practice , you can work the Peak4 to get yourself out of the water and then easily onto the foil.

A 5m Peak4 weighs only 880gm and the lightness means it doesn't stall or slow at the edge of the window like an LEI kite nor does it fall out of the sky in a lull. Although it's not a powerful kite in the way of a twin skin foil kite or LEI kite, it is powerful for its size and the smooth and consistent development of that power is what makes lightwind foiling easier. Once up and foiling the apparent wind development is good and the kite is responsive at all wind strengths especially when turning downwind when it can be hard to keep other kites in the air.

However I did think some of my success was due to my light weight which really helps me show the benefits of the Peak4 as I sell them and the Flysurfer range. But some of my customers approx. 20kg heavier than me were achieving similar results on their 5m Peak4 kites :D
I also have used the 8m Peak4 to get foiling in the 6 knot + range with success using the same small board and foil combo. With a kite you can relax with in light wind, the fun comes from a small, light and manoeuvrable board and appropriate surf foil, especially if you have even small swell or waves. If you haven't tried a Peak4 get a demo and you'll understand the difference.

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby Slappysan » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:08 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:00 am
PS: What do you weigh?
Amazed that you can ride in 7 knots with a 5 m2 Peak, impressive even if it pulls like a 7 m2 :thumb:
I'm 75 kg (165 lbs) but keep in mind I'm usually wearing a thick wetsuit so with gear on I'm more like 78 kg (172 lbs)

I can only ride in 7 knots, not start. I need 8 knots to start.

It's mostly just a work out until 9 knots. 10 knots and up it's legit fun. 12-14 knots it's perfection. 15-20 knots it's fluttery but manageable.

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby drsurf » Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:54 pm

8) Peter.
See if you can try a Flysurfer Peak4 yourself so you know what Peak4 users are experiencing. There really is no other kite that performs like a Peak4 to give you a comparison on a surf foil. Interested in your feedback.

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby tomtom » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:07 pm

Slappysan wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:08 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:00 am
PS: What do you weigh?
Amazed that you can ride in 7 knots with a 5 m2 Peak, impressive even if it pulls like a 7 m2 :thumb:
I'm 75 kg (165 lbs) but keep in mind I'm usually wearing a thick wetsuit so with gear on I'm more like 78 kg (172 lbs)

I can only ride in 7 knots, not start. I need 8 knots to start.

It's mostly just a work out until 9 knots. 10 knots and up it's legit fun. 12-14 knots it's perfection. 15-20 knots it's fluttery but manageable.
I think we are again on knots vs knots. Cause i will say peak 5m at 7 knts?! - common! :)
And as much as like Peak - im actually one of first adopter and admirer after Horst - they are not light wind kites. There are MUCH better option for light wind.
Only justifiable reasons for use Peaks in under 10 are very sketchy launch or weird wind where no other kite will fly OR kite price.

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby Sfollis » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:41 pm

Foiling in 7 knots wind with a 5m kite 🤣😂🤣

I was out today with my 15m Chrono and the wind was at a constant 7 knots and on my Groove Skate 130 . I tend to immediately lift off the water as soon as I start to dive the kite (lots of lift from the Chrono). There is no way I would want to sink the board to thigh deep 🤔

It always it amazes me when foiling in light winds how much faster than the actual wind speed you can travel. Today’s max was 22.2 knots with only 7 knots of wind (3 times quicker!). They call it “apparent wind”, I call it Magic on the Magic Carpet 🤙

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby a99 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:03 pm

All say that Peak4 5m has biggest wind range, but there lot of people writing that it works weel only from about 10 till 14 knots (as optimal), what is really tight fun range. any LEI has bigger range in general. but of course infoiling peak is another world. By the way and what is Peak4 8m fun range ?


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