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Huge board, huge wing, small kite

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:54 pm

So norcom, are you impliying that the Peak4 in 5 m2 is the "best" size, as it can go as low as 8 knots, and much more peak power and range?

And the 8 and especially 11 too slow and not that much gain compared to the disadvantages?

8) Peter

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby norcom » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:16 pm

Peter_Frank wrote: So norcom, are you impliying that the Peak4 in 5 m2 is the "best" size, as it can go as low as 8 knots, and much more peak power and range?

And the 8 and especially 11 too slow and not that much gain compared to the disadvantages?

8) Peter
For my area? YES! The 5m is my BREAD AND BUTTER kite right now! I keep three kites in one bag: 4/5/8 and I don't bring the 11m with me anymore.

Gusting to 8 knots or avg of 8 knots? If I measure gusting to 8 knots, I will rig the 8m. I will rig the 5m if I measure 10-14mph (8.6knots - 12.1knots) if I measure 13-18mph I'll rig the 4m. Anything above that and I go LEI and surfboard. Of course this also depends on what the forecast says. But re-rigging the Peaks is so wonderfully easy! (I do this with the GoFoil Iwa wing, LOVE this wing! Riding the slightest bumps feels like I'm on a much bigger wave)

The 8m is good, much better than the 11m and my new session saver. Would love a 6.5m Peak4 but that was a discussion in another thread. :lol: The 8m drawback is that when I have to use it there's so little wind that I'm just mowing the lawn and struggling.

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby jakemoore » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:22 pm

For HF definitely get a 5 before you get an 8 and get an 8 before 11. The PEAK does not compete with performance double skin foils in creating a powerspike for getting on the board and for depower. I have had some amazing sessions HF on the 11, but it has such a narrow windrange. I get more bottom and top end with my 13m Chrono.

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:39 pm

I hear you :thumb:

Still amazed when saying performance double skin kites has more peak power than the Peaks, how the 5 can ride/start with average weights in 8 knots?

Not a chance with a LEI 5 or 6 or 7 m2 even on long lines, in 8 knots :o

A 10 m2 is needed.

And as the 5 m2 Peak dont has twice as much projected area as an SLE LEI, it must either have way more bottom end, or quite extreme peak power compared to a LEI?

8) Peter

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby drsurf » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:58 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:39 pm
I hear you :thumb:

Still amazed when saying performance double skin kites has more peak power than the Peaks, how the 5 can ride/start with average weights in 8 knots?

Not a chance with a LEI 5 or 6 or 7 m2 even on long lines, in 8 knots :o

A 10 m2 is needed.

And as the 5 m2 Peak dont has twice as much projected area as an SLE LEI, it must either have way more bottom end, or quite extreme peak power compared to a LEI?

8) Peter
8) Peter as many of us keep saying you won't believe how a Peak4 works until you try it. It's hard to explain the power development, depower and steering characteristics of the Peak4 as they are quite different to any other kite.
Even I'm amazed at how well they perform. I'm only 65 kg and the 5m is great for me in light winds with a surf foil. But my other friends with 5m Peak4 kites are 20+ kg heavier than me but still get foiling in the same light winds :o I think there's only about a one knot difference gained with my lighter weight.
It's even more bizarre when I'm out foiling on my 3m Peak4 whilst all around me are kiters on twin tips using 12m to 17m kites :o :o

Beg, borrow or buy a 5m Peak4 and you'll understand what we are talking about. There's no risk because if you don't like the 5m Peak4 you'll have a queue of buyers ready to buy it off you :)

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby tomtom » Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:05 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:39 pm
how the 5 can ride/start with average weights in 8 knots?

Very easy, IT WONT.

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby drsurf » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:20 pm

drsurf wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:24 pm
kit3surfer wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:52 pm
@drsurf: Do you have any footage of you or others foiling in light wind withe small peak4's? There are unfortunately not a lot of new videos to find.
Thanks
Hi kit3surfer.
No I don't have any videos, and you're not the first to ask. I'll have to get my partner to shoot some footage of me on the water so you can see I'm not making outrageous claims :D
OK, I managed to get my partner to shoot some very ordinary video of me on the 5m Peak4 in 4 to 9 knots.
I really need to find someone who can video kitesurfing around here. A drone would be good but there are military airspace restrictions where we kite :(

So as you can see in the video the wind is quite light. If you look at the beginning where the windmeter is being held, you'll see in the distance, lower right just above the hand, a Peak4 5m kite flying while the reading is taking place. The guy on this kite weighs approx 85kg and is comfortably foiling on a Naish Large foil in this light wind. The rest of the video is myself at 65kg on an Axis 110cm Tray board and Moses 679 (990 sq cm) foil.

Now there can be arguments as to whether the wind is stronger higher up or offshore. In my experience on this day I tried to go as close to the shore as the foil and swimmers in the water would allow and only went out about 100m and the wind varied very little. Likewise flying the kite high or low didn't show much difference in the wind speed.
There are many variables with regard to wind quality as well. Some say a colder wind has more power. In this video it was a warm day approx 28°C with a water temp. of approx 24°C. However the wind is a seabreeze which is generated both by the position of a high pressure system offshore and the heat of the land mass behind the shore sucking in cooler ocean air. These seabreezes are consistent and don't have lulls of no wind. The wind is cross onshore with a long fetch, so there are no obstacles to make the wind turbulent. So it's a good location with good steady wind.

So to address the topic of this thread, firstly I don't think a big board is the answer as far as fun goes. The Axis 110cm board I was using is 50cm wide and has a fair bit of surface area if needed to get some speed to get onto the foil. However I find that if the kite can lift me out of the water then I'll be up on the foil with a couple of sines of the kite. I don't think you need a huge wing, just big enough for the wind of the day. I have dropped the size of my front wing temporarily from 1250 sq cm to 990 sq cm and the effect on getting up and foiling was insignificant. (Moses wings are very efficient). However I could fly the larger foil a couple of knots less in speed on the water before it stopped foiling.
And small kites, especially Peak4's are fun. Even if the wind did drop to virtually nothing you can still fly them and drag back to shore. Something which would not be possible with an LEI kite or small twin skin kites.

One caveat in all this discussion. One or two knots difference in light wind can be the difference between foiling and flailing around in the water. Under 10 knots every knot matters and consistency is king. A one or two knot additional gust may be what gets you out of the water and onto the foil where apparent wind takes over. I also have an 8m Peak4 which comes out when the gusts barely reach 8 knots. Even though the 8m only adds 2-4 knots to the bottom end of your range there are enough days where this is the difference between getting up on the foil or not. It's been said that the Peak4 kites are not so much a light wind kite but are the best kites in light wind! Get your head around that :D
Last edited by drsurf on Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby foilholio » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:40 pm

Video looks like 10-12knots to me, not saying it wasn't lighter just the video looks like that to me. You are right 1 knot can make a huge difference in light wind.

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby kit3surfer » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:06 pm

Yeah right, for me this looks also like more wind. There are even small whitecaps to see.
But anyway, thanks for the clip. Could you upload some more, especially from the kite flying characteristics (turning radius and drifting). That would be great because I didn't find any of these clips online.
Thanks

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Re: Huge board, huge wing, small kite

Postby tomtom » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:25 pm

Wind was also stronger on water not only higher up. People should have basic wind estimation skills. If there are white caps its 10 knts+ teritory


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