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Advice needed for new foil board

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joekitetime
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Re: Advice needed for new foil board

Postby joekitetime » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:11 pm

I weigh 160# 72.5kg

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Re: Advice needed for new foil board

Postby Flyboy » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:50 am

joekitetime wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:02 pm

I own both the micro and non micro.

The feeling between the two when up and riding is barely noticeable to me.

I have been shocked at how the thickness of the board seems to have zero impact in riding.
This surely works both ways? If there's no difference in micro & non micro when up & riding, why use the micro?

I am assuming that the lighter weight of the micro would make it somewhat more responsive & I am assuming that the extra floatation of the non-micro MUST make some difference in getting up on the foil in light wind ... but when you're on the foil would make no difference.

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Re: Advice needed for new foil board

Postby Trent hink » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:15 pm

You'd think the standard dwarf craft could be built stiffer and lighter than the micro model.

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Re: Advice needed for new foil board

Postby joekitetime » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:24 pm

Flyboy wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:50 am
joekitetime wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:02 pm

I own both the micro and non micro.

The feeling between the two when up and riding is barely noticeable to me.

I have been shocked at how the thickness of the board seems to have zero impact in riding.
This surely works both ways? If there's no difference in micro & non micro when up & riding, why use the micro?

I am assuming that the lighter weight of the micro would make it somewhat more responsive & I am assuming that the extra floatation of the non-micro MUST make some difference in getting up on the foil in light wind ... but when you're on the foil would make no difference.
Excellent question, "why use the micro"... I use the micro for my big wings because the mast track is 2" off the tail. I use the non-micro because the mast track is 3" off the tail (the start of the mast track) so it works for my 590 Moses wing which I need to slide as far forward as I can to make it work.

As far as flotation/weight, again, I don't notice it. The only thing I seem to notice mostly when riding is foot pressure. That is the one experience I find highly annoying that I am constantly correcting. Less of a big deal with no straps, huge deal w/straps. But even w/no straps, if my back foot is on the bump pad my front foot needs to balance out the lift from the bigger wings, and sometimes I have to just slide it too far forward the thus widen my stance more than I want. Conversely, if I simply slide my back foot forward that works for balance but less so for carving and pumping. This all relates to balance for me. Flotation and weight never seem to enter my mind!

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Re: Advice needed for new foil board

Postby purdyd » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:09 pm

I have the dwarfcraft micro and lack of volume Is not the limiting factor for light wind.

And I mean that in comparison with my alien air and I use a 6m kite and I am on as small or smaller kite than other riders.

The reason I picked the micro, rather than the regular is I thought I would be easier for travel.

For 2020 slingshot moved the mast track back for both of the smaller dwarfcrafts.

Being able move the foil back is key to me as it allows me to stand back on the board and rise up on the nose on the downstroke and then rise on the foil for the upstroke of the kite.

@ 107 cm do the dwarf craft that puts it in line with the the small twin tip trays I rode back in the day. I feel if I went much shorter it would impact light wind starting.

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Re: Advice needed for new foil board

Postby Flyboy » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:05 pm

There's no question that the micro is smaller & lighter for travel. I just got the non-micro. Have not tried it yet, but I will say it doesn't feel "light" relative to its size. My concern was that I did't want a board that wouldn't work well in sub 10 kt winds, because that would defeat the purpose of foiling.

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Re: Advice needed for new foil board

Postby purdyd » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:53 pm

Well volume might help you get on top of the board but as far as getting up on foil with boards this small, lighter weight would be better.

Again, I am not finding the lack of volume is limiting in how light of wind I can go out in.

If you don’t care about the thickness, I think either board will be fine and you likely won’t notice any difference.

The OP has a T40 that he was going to keep and so a thin pocket board makes a lot of sense,

I’m sure you will be happy with the regular dwarfcraft. Many use it around here.

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Re: Advice needed for new foil board

Postby Flyboy » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:54 pm

purdyd wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:53 pm
Well volume might help you get on top of the board but as far as getting up on foil with boards this small, lighter weight would be better.

Again, I am not finding the lack of volume is limiting in how light of wind I can go out in.

If you don’t care about the thickness, I think either board will be fine and you likely won’t notice any difference.

The OP has a T40 that he was going to keep and so a thin pocket board makes a lot of sense,

I’m sure you will be happy with the regular dwarfcraft. Many use it around here.

I was considering keeping my 4'6" DWC & getting the micro ... but decided that it would just be too much hassle to deal with 2 boards, sold the 4'6" & went with the non-micro as the compromise option.

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Re: Advice needed for new foil board

Postby Flyboy » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:19 pm

Had my first session with the 3'6" (non-micro). Very light wind initially - couldn't get up on the foil ... but wouldn't have been able to get up with the bigger DWC either. Picked up to around 9-10 knots I was able to get foiling. What I noticed is that if you fail to get on the foil with the initial downstroke dropping back into the water makes it impossible to muscle your way back up - there's just not enough board to keep you from submarining. Presumably this would be worse with the micro. Once you're up & riding the foil the smaller size makes no real difference - again presumably this would be the case with the micro also. Note this is with a smallish (700 sqcm) wing that does not "rise up" gradually - it's a bit of an all-or-nothing thing. Might be different with a bigger, slower wing.

So ... hard to know what to conclude. There's sort of an incremental difference between the sizes that I could see effecting the performance at the lightest end of the wind spectrum, but once you've got a decent amount of wind probably not much difference for a reasonably experienced foiler.

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Re: Advice needed for new foil board

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:09 am

Flyboy wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:19 pm
Had my first session with the 3'6" (non-micro). Very light wind initially - couldn't get up on the foil ... but wouldn't have been able to get up with the bigger DWC either. Picked up to around 9-10 knots I was able to get foiling. What I noticed is that if you fail to get on the foil with the initial downstroke dropping back into the water makes it impossible to muscle your way back up - there's just not enough board to keep you from submarining. Presumably this would be worse with the micro. Once you're up & riding the foil the smaller size makes no real difference - again presumably this would be the case with the micro also. Note this is with a smallish (700 sqcm) wing that does not "rise up" gradually - it's a bit of an all-or-nothing thing. Might be different with a bigger, slower wing.

So ... hard to know what to conclude. There's sort of an incremental difference between the sizes that I could see effecting the performance at the lightest end of the wind spectrum, but once you've got a decent amount of wind probably not much difference for a reasonably experienced foiler.
I find there's a very fine line, it's literally splitting hairs. More volume/area *might* help to get up on the foil, but I'm not going to make the next gybe anyway and the difference is desperately trying to get back to the beach or looping the kite to body drag downwind to the shore...

Go up a bunch more size with the kite will make a difference is getting up, but the riding will be much the same.


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