Peak Foil

[Peter_Frank]

Apart from wings getting bigger and bigger the last years, and now going a step back towards "not as big", I dont see much or any significant change or inventions the last 4 years, pretty much the same gear and designs and build methods.

It might come suddenly, but it seems to have stagnated, just like with LEI kites 7 to 9 years ago, not much has happened since, apart from making lighter kites for foiling the last 4 years of course.

Peter

[OzBungy]

So far the responses to this thread seem to support my suggestion. E-foils? Mounting brackets? Buoyancy tuning? They may or may not be useful things but they're not improvements or revolutions for foils. They're tinkering around the edges.

As for weight, my kit is full carbon sandwich and weighs 6.2kg wet. It's got about 370 hours on it and the only sign of wear is a few paint chips. The whole thing goes together with 4 torx screws. When packed into the bags it all fits into the boot of my car. The full kit cost AUD$2800.

Weight and complexity are really only recent concepts as manufacturers chase sales with cheap to manufacture aluminium components. I can't help but think if the industry pursued properly developed carbon and composite construction then everybody would have reasonably priced lightweight gear that lasts well.

[gbrungra]

Look at SUP. Pioneered by wave riders, but adopted by the masses for flatwater.

If technology could improve enough for foilSUP flatwater starts to become attainable for the masses, then foiling would expand 10x or 100x.

[pikovsg]

Very much disagree on the stagnation - there's a lot going on in foil biz and innovation. There are no huge changes in the industry, but there are huge changes on the water this year. There are a LOT more foilers riding in 2020, with the majority of remaining full-time twintipper folk "giving in" this year. I'm sure many of you see it in your local spot.

For a few years now, a lot of people in various parts of the world have been putting solid hours on the foil and are now pushing the envelope, giving the industry new angles on what to catch up on.

This year, mainstream companies seem to be finally looking at board shapes and weight. Maybe cottage board shapers like Temavento, Ketos and Groove made enough of a dent to rethink the role of the board. Naish, Slingy and Duotone are starting to add concave and convex parts on top, other companies are playing with double concave bottoms, lighter materials, smaller boards, better rails, more pronounced rocker, etc. Cottage is innovating faster than mainstream, but that's how it usually goes.

Wings are changing too. Someone said wings are getting "slightly smaller than huge". It's true, but that's due to refinement. Moses is fine-tuning the 633 wing while adding bigger, yet more efficient wings that are better balanced with slightly smaller footprint. Hopefully carbon wings/masts and lighter foil-specific kites will find its way into mainstream in 2021. Not just in racing. The new Core Xlite kites are fantastic for foiling, try them out. May even give BRM Clouds some competition in a year or two.

Speaking of – BRM is always evolving Cloud kites and CCS bars at a good, steady pace, along with rock solid service and a cheerful personality.

e-foil is here to stay, but it won't change the kitefoil industry, at least not for now. Personally, I had the chance to ride Lift's e-foil for a full day and absolutely loved it. Got decent at carving and even jumped it a bit. It's not difficult. That said, it's a big and heavy board to carve tight, even the Lift's lightest offering. The current non-folding motor doesn't allow you to coast or ride waves (Lift already has a folding version). It's prohibitively expensive, and even if it wasn't, it just doesn't have that adrenaline/soul/simplicity combination of kite foiling. Last but not least is the limited range - you need to have a 2nd or a 3rd battery for a serious 3+ hour session, which makes it a $16-18K foil... In a few years the batteries will get smaller and a lot more efficient, resulting in more range while enabling the board to be smaller and lighter. Then things may be different. But even then, the dynamic, physical and worry-free analog power of a kite on a foil is not something the efoil can probably ever replace.

Maybe monofoils will take off in a few years. Mainstream drone foiling in 2025?

Foiling is doing very well, we're still at the early phase, IMO.

[slowboat]

Real innovation will come from unpredictable directions. Impossible for us to guess right now what that might be.

[Peter_Frank]

pikovsg, we might have different views and local differences too.

Around here the foil craze started full on 2 to 4 years ago, the first years which in Denmark was 2012-2014 was mostly less than a handful of pioneers (if you can call it that, just "doing" it as the first ones).

Then the years 2015-2017 when the full racing scene changed overnight to foiling, and there were many brands making kitefoils now, a huge number of kitesurfers went foiling both racing and freeride/freestyle/wave.

And the last 2 years all those having said "never", start foiling no matter what their background or preferences, as they can see the potential and how many out

So in terms of number of foilers yes, we are on the steep way up, still.


But I read the question as designwise peak regarding kite hydrofoils.
And will still say it has been stagnant for some years, only refinements now, just like in every other business without "revolutionary" or really big improvements.
Stagnant just like in kitedesign for many years, only subtle refinements, sometimes none...
(With the lighter kites for foiling being the exception of course)

There are new markets indeed, with more change, like SUP foils or electrical foils or wing foils - but that got nothing to do with kitefoiling as I see it.

Not much happening in kitefoiling is my short answer, apart from the subtle refinements.

But this is not bad, is it?

Peter

[elguapo]

foils imo are still in a devolpmental trial and error stage...
the tops makers are still making jumps on new products..and everyone releases their copy 2 years later.

an arguement can be made that LEI kites have not really progress at all since the legaignoux bros made the critical error of moving to domicican republic(and i assume discovered dominicanas)

copying other designs... changing colors every year....updating materials. thats basically it the last 20 years.
really....outside paragliders entering the game... what has the kite industry actually done with kites since those first patents a generation ago?


not sure who would buy it...
but i could see using a foil for foil surfing.
but there are already one hand remotes for drones...you literally point where you want it to go...and not that difficult to waterproof...

you could use the biggest wing and smallest board possible.. and use drone power just get you on the foil (or whenever you need it)
a lipo battery for dji inspire for example can fly it almost 30 mins right now... if tesla&samsung are successful commercializing graphene batteries flight times should almost double and charge times with would be 5x faster (almost overnight)

that would work..
surf for an hour.. swap batteries off charger. go back out. repeat.

[Peter_Frank]

The short answer is of course "No".

As this goes for all things, it can never have peaked when there are subtle refinements all the time, which is the case for everything.

But if you look away from this slow improvement in details, I still see kitefoils has stagnated - but that does not make it less awesome in any way

Peter

[Mossy 757]

I'm looking forward to getting a new hydrofoil made out of Aluula...

[pikovsg]

I think we all might be a bit spoiled when it comes to expectations on kite and foil progress