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is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

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Pemba
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby Pemba » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:36 pm

I guess you could still cover the looped bit with a sleeve. Just not up to the point the two pieces meet/join. But pigtails where the lines are attached or detached is obviously a good idea.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby geokite » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:42 pm

I've heard 74 times the line diameter for the length of the splice. Something about a fid being line diameter X 21, and 3.5 fids for a bury.

https://dutchwaregear.com/2016/02/19/amsteel-101/

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby OzBungy » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:56 am

The suggestions here are sort of good, but also a bit ignorant.

Yes it is easy to splice. You need to practice and understand what is happening when you're doing it.

Don't use the Brummel splice. It is almost impossible to do it accurately. There's no way to adjust a Brummel splice. You have to measure the splice and make allowance for the distance taken up by the thickness of the line and all the bits and pieces. It is far more accurate and adjustable to do a simple finger trap splice, adjust to length, and sew to lock in the splice.

You want to get the structure of a splice right pretty much first go. Too many attempts and you shred the fibres. Again, finger traps are simple and easy. There is only one entry and exit in the line. Brummel splices have lots of small steps where you can introduce damage (through across with double thickness, back through with the tail to untwist, enter, exit). I do use Brummel splices for medium thickness lines where accuracy is not so important. Brummel's on very thick lines are bulky and ugly (and the bulk can take up room when used to hold something like a cleat in place).

The D-splicer is too thick for thin kite lines. A thin guitar string is fine for lines down to a little over 1mm thick (about 1.2mm, maybe 1.1mm if you're lucky), but not much good for super thin lines.

The problem is the folded guitar string goes through across the lines. I found it impossible to neatly insert the folded guitar string down the length of a very thin line.

The thinnest line I have spliced is .8mm using a darning needle. With a little practice you can spread the weave and get the darning needle down the middle.

It's virtually impossible to make long lines to precise length. You have to do it under a defined tension with no flex in the system. You could make anchor points and load weights and set up a target and a laser pointer. You need binoculars to see the laser pointer on the target. *ANY* movement in the system introduces inaccuracy. Trying to do it hand held is impossible.

What I have done is make one line, then make the others and adjust the length to match. That's fairly easy to do. I slide the finger trap splice around and compare under tension then lock the finger trap with a safety pin. I then machine sew the splice to finish off.

For short lines, like bridles, I use a length of timber and hammer in nails to set the length. That's relatively easy to do.

The length of the bury is kind of irrelevant, there's so many different recommendations and they mostly refer to yachting ropes. I simply make it about the same as the existing lines plus a bit. The lentht of the bury doesn't need to be super accurate, but if you make the bury too long it will consume some line length leading to inaccuracy in line length.

To an extent the splice doesn't have to be super strong because you're never loading the splice. The end of a kite line will always be locked into some kind of a hitch which is the thing that is bearing the actual load. We have done temporary repairs by simply hitching in a new line and tying the loose end around the line with a stop knot.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby Slyde » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:54 am

I would respectfully disagree with Ozbungy. I have cut and spliced kitelines many many times both with a stitched "finger splice" and with the locked double brummel splice. If you only use the single brummel you must stitch the splice as it will not hold, but a double brummel splice will hold perfectly without being stitched so that is what I use now and with a couple of practice runs you will get it very accurate. You should look up Premium Ropes on youtube. You want the video for a double brummel splice when you only have one end of the rope available (unless you want to feed 19 metres of line through your splice :). I just broke my mini d splicer so have gone back to using a loop of fishing line which also works very well as a d splicer.
One thing worth noting is that front lines and rear lines are different diameters and if you cut them all to the same length you will find that the larger diameter of the front lines means that after you have spliced the loop the front lines end up a little shorter than the back lines. Usually this doesnt matter much.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby StillLovinIt » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:41 am

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby OzBungy » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:51 am

To my knowledge there is no such thing as a single or double brummel splice. There are two ways of doing a brummel splice (pass the loop through or pass the tail through) but the end result is the same.

You could measure the lines straight, then mark your brummel splices back from the cut ends and finish up with two lines the same length. That's not the same as making lines to a specific length, or making a new line to match an existing completed line.

I find that the slightest variation in inserting the fid or cutting the taper results in variations in completed length. It is much easier to simply slide a splice until it is the exact same length as its partner.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby tomtom » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:49 am

Yes it is easier set exact lenght with sewing . But from your statement it looks almost impossible to do brummel and this it FAAAAR from truth. I myself made 10 bars this year and everything /not only flying lines/ is brummel only. Everything hold just fine and everything is very precise. Problem with brummel /also solvable/ is exact number lenght not exact same lenght.
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby faklord » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:47 am

For what its worth.
I am another advocate for a simple long bury (no Brummell) as it is then easy to load up spliced lines and adjust to get millimetre perfect before applying lock stitch (I use sewing m/c).
Note. The adjustment is done by pulling out a bit of the tail to make the loop bigger.
So. Make up the 1st line complete. Then make others slightly (say 1cm) shorter. Preload and adjust to match.

Also. Getting a long fine taper is v important to maintain strength (I have done pull tests to confirm this and was v surprised!). I don’t believe what Gunnar shows is very effective. The diameter of the linear (frayed) fibres is only slightly less than that of the woven fibres and more importantly there is still a step change at the end of the tail. With kite lines my preference is to fray the ends for about 3cm and then cut the frayed fibres at a very shallow angle (requires V sharp scissors). It is easiest to cut the taper after you have pulled the tail through and back out of the main line but before (obviously!) you pull the tail into the main line.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby tomtom » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:06 am

This is starting to be hifi cable debate. What Gunnar shows it what he is riding and using. He is racing crazy powered - if there will be problem with brummel he will exploit that problem and also i would exploit it and so do dozen of guys riding my bars and so 1000s of sailors . Talking about tapering /you should taper without any doubt / look at commercial stuff which 99,9% kiters rode. No tapering at all is industry standard.
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby Macster » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:29 am

Lol. here's another opinion...

Guitar wire 24 gauge is perfect as a fid for 1.3mm line.

Made lines with brummel splice no lock and 70x tail with just a 1inch taper at the end and used them for 2 years no problem. This includes mega looping.

Lately I use the locked brummel technique with a 70x tail but a much longer tapered tail where I cut one strand every 5mm. This gives a really smooth tail and finish.

These are holding up well too but I've only been using this technique for about 3 months. Time will tell.

I would never start your splicing journey on a quality set of new lines. I reckon I did 20 or 30 practice splices before I did quality ones at the exact length I wanted.

I just practiced every night with old line while watching TV. Now I could knock out a set of new lines in approx 20-30 mins and have the lines within a couple of milimetre s of each other
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