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is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

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edt
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby edt » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:54 pm

yeah go for what you like. I like the simple splice but if you like the brummel use the brummel. They are both good. I used to think simple splice was stronger but I now agree with tomtom they are about the same, maybe the simple splice is 1% stronger.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby Faxie » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:55 pm

tomtom wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:30 pm
Brummel is virtually identical in strength than long bury - this is many times confirmed by lots of independent measurement. Long bury is very slightly stronger but both made splice which is stronger than line rated strength. There are two brummel type - normal /which require free line end/ and inverted which doesnt not. Normal look esthetically better - strenght is same. I use both types acording situation.

Foil, you look like handy man, please ignore all comments that its hard, complicated and it require 20 attempts. You must do 1 or 2 practice run and after that you are fine.
It is much easier than make perfect finish on wings and I actually enjoy messing with lines.
Yeah, afaik and from different sources the strength between a regular bury and brummel is almost the same.

For line lenghts: I've made my own 20m +4m extensions, all with brummel splices, and the complete lines are virtually the same length. What I did was splice one side first, then tension all four lines and cut them at the end. Mark the lines for the loop, splice, bury, taper and voila.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby richy-c » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:03 am

This looks like a good option.
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby longwhitecloud » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:32 am

id like to see actual breaking strains of different sleeves and even simply an overhand knot... in the same dyneema

an actual test rig and results, i have chopped lines with scissors and simply tied overhand knots, no sleeving, to make a larks head - never had one snap.. would like to know exactly how much weaker this is though.. the truth!

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby tomtom » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:56 am

richy-c wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:03 am
This looks like a good option.
This is poor man brummel :)

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby tomtom » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:03 am

longwhitecloud wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:32 am
id like to see actual breaking strains of different sleeves and even simply an overhand knot... in the same dyneema

an actual test rig and results, i have chopped lines with scissors and simply tied overhand knots, no sleeving, to make a larks head - never had one snap.. would like to know exactly how much weaker this is though.. the truth!

This is just proof that you operate well bellow line rated strength so weakening line by knot /25-50%/ doesn't matter.

On www.chicagoyachtrigging.com was very good set of actual measurement but i cannot connect to site right now - some weird error. I estimate that the thinner line is the more it weaken

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby OzBungy » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:17 am

Jfactor wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:00 pm
Getting brummels the same length is NOT hard. I've done countless sets with brummels, never without issues. The key to this is cutting all of the lines to the same length, and marking the line where you want the loop to fold. Once you do this, its easy to adjust the loop slightly right before you lock it. Since all of the lines were cut to the same length, the shrinking that occurs due to bury will all be identical.
That is true for making sets of lines. You can mark them all under the same load and cut and splice them to the same measurements. It is not true at all for making individual lines and not true if you make any errors during the marking or splicing process.

Errors can occur when passing through the two marked points, when passing the bury through, and when making the taper at the end of the bury. You only have to be one or two strands out on your pass through to end up 5mm short. Do that on each point and that's 15mm or more.

You can disassemble a brummel, but it can be a pain and it can cause more damage to the fibres.

What you can do for making individual lines is make a tester. Try and make a line to be exactly 50cm long (or whatever dimension you want). Don't forget to use a 5-10kg load on the test line and the final line. See how far short it ends up then add that distance to your measurements. You will get kind of close. You may or may not get an accurate result.

Do brummel splices all you want. But be aware that there are limitations that you should take into account if you want a quality result.

PS I have seen test videos of knots and splices being broken. The failure was always 25-50mm from the splice or break, never on the knot or splice where you would expect it to happen. It was suggested that a shock wave is passing through the line that causes the break.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby Faxie » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:20 am

longwhitecloud wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:32 am
id like to see actual breaking strains of different sleeves and even simply an overhand knot... in the same dyneema

an actual test rig and results, i have chopped lines with scissors and simply tied overhand knots, no sleeving, to make a larks head - never had one snap.. would like to know exactly how much weaker this is though.. the truth!

Check the Facebook page from Infexion. He has some tests there.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby Foil » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:39 pm

longwhitecloud wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:32 am
id like to see actual breaking strains of different sleeves and even simply an overhand knot... in the same dyneema

an actual test rig and results, i have chopped lines with scissors and simply tied overhand knots, no sleeving, to make a larks head - never had one snap.. would like to know exactly how much weaker this is though.. the truth!
I have set up a breaking strain rig in my garage, and I am able to test up to 300kg.

A simple knot in 300kg rated kite line has been tested many times on my rig, love to show the shocking results to others to see if they can guess the point of failure,

the snap point is between 60-80 kg, and when it goes it makes you jump,as it goes with a loud bang, Q line was different and very difficult to get to snap, it heated up at the knot point and sort of melted out thinner, at which point I could apply even more load to gradually snap the line as it stretched thinner at the granny knot point,
The strain gauge switched off as it went past its maximum 300kg reading.

having tested so many times on my rig the lines tighten up so much around the support post point they refuse to undo, I have to either use a stanley knife or my gas torch to get them off.
Last edited by Foil on Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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edt
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby edt » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:42 pm

OzBungy wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:17 am


PS I have seen test videos of knots and splices being broken. The failure was always 25-50mm from the splice or break, never on the knot or splice where you would expect it to happen. It was suggested that a shock wave is passing through the line that causes the break.
Yeah I'm not sure why this happens but when it fails an inch away from the splice you know the splice is where it failed not the line. Just keep it mind if you have a line failure.


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