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is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

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longwhitecloud
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby longwhitecloud » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:57 pm

Foil wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:39 pm
longwhitecloud wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:32 am
id like to see actual breaking strains of different sleeves and even simply an overhand knot... in the same dyneema

an actual test rig and results, i have chopped lines with scissors and simply tied overhand knots, no sleeving, to make a larks head - never had one snap.. would like to know exactly how much weaker this is though.. the truth!
I have set up a breaking strain rig in my garage, and I am able to test up to 300kg.

A simple knot in 300kg rated kite line has been tested many times on my rig, love to show the shocking results to others to see if they can guess the point of failure,

the snap point is between 60-80 kg, and when it goes it makes you jump,as it goes with a loud bang, Q line was different and very difficult to get to snap, it heated up at the knot point and sort of melted out thinner, at which point I could apply even more load to gradually snap the line as it stretched thinner at the granny knot point,
The strain gauge switched off as it went past its maximum 300kg reading.

having tested so many times on my rig the lines tighten up so much around the support post point they refuse to undo, I have to either use a stanley knife or my gas torch to get them off.
Very interesting - did you try a loop made with an overhand knot for a larks head instead of simply a knot... i have ridden for eons with a knot in my front lines and for sure (?) they had way more than 80kg on them . . many factors though.. (naish lines)

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby Herman » Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:24 pm

Personally I don't use brummels on flying line as I think they are unnecessary, but if you prefer them that's fine too. When I am experimenting with unusual line length I sometimes use the configuration in the first photo, larks head to stopper knot no loop no splice. I am also pretty sure that somewhen in the past I rigged as in the second photo in order to see if it would have slippage back to the stopper knot, and it did not have any slip. It is a useful jury rig if the need arises. It also shows that the tail does not do that much in this type of rigging. Sorry first photo with stopper knot hard against larks head did not load but I am sure you will get the gist!
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby Foil » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:55 pm

longwhitecloud wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:57 pm
Foil wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:39 pm
longwhitecloud wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:32 am
id like to see actual breaking strains of different sleeves and even simply an overhand knot... in the same dyneema

an actual test rig and results, i have chopped lines with scissors and simply tied overhand knots, no sleeving, to make a larks head - never had one snap.. would like to know exactly how much weaker this is though.. the truth!
I have set up a breaking strain rig in my garage, and I am able to test up to 300kg.

A simple knot in 300kg rated kite line has been tested many times on my rig, love to show the shocking results to others to see if they can guess the point of failure,

the snap point is between 60-80 kg, and when it goes it makes you jump,as it goes with a loud bang, Q line was different and very difficult to get to snap, it heated up at the knot point and sort of melted out thinner, at which point I could apply even more load to gradually snap the line as it stretched thinner at the granny knot point,
The strain gauge switched off as it went past its maximum 300kg reading.

having tested so many times on my rig the lines tighten up so much around the support post point they refuse to undo, I have to either use a stanley knife or my gas torch to get them off.
Very interesting - did you try a loop made with an overhand knot for a larks head instead of simply a knot... i have ridden for eons with a knot in my front lines and for sure (?) they had way more than 80kg on them . . many factors though.. (naish lines)
I did try a figure 8 knot in the line, and that was much stronger, snapping hard at around 170kg, when the lines snap on my rig it really makes you jump back and the shock knocks out the strain gauge, so I had to try and concentrate hard on the digital read out to catch the exact number as it broke, it was impossible not to blink as it went bang!
the line I was using was/is not known as the greatest line out there, big brand, not Ozone or Slingshot or Naish. and not new, around a year of good use.
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longwhitecloud
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby longwhitecloud » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:59 pm

Foil wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:55 pm
longwhitecloud wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:57 pm
Foil wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:39 pm

I have set up a breaking strain rig in my garage, and I am able to test up to 300kg.

A simple knot in 300kg rated kite line has been tested many times on my rig, love to show the shocking results to others to see if they can guess the point of failure,

the snap point is between 60-80 kg, and when it goes it makes you jump,as it goes with a loud bang, Q line was different and very difficult to get to snap, it heated up at the knot point and sort of melted out thinner, at which point I could apply even more load to gradually snap the line as it stretched thinner at the granny knot point,
The strain gauge switched off as it went past its maximum 300kg reading.

having tested so many times on my rig the lines tighten up so much around the support post point they refuse to undo, I have to either use a stanley knife or my gas torch to get them off.
Very interesting - did you try a loop made with an overhand knot for a larks head instead of simply a knot... i have ridden for eons with a knot in my front lines and for sure (?) they had way more than 80kg on them . . many factors though.. (naish lines)
I did try a figure 8 knot in the line, and that was much stronger, snapping hard at around 170kg, when the lines snap on my rig it really makes you jump back and the shock knocks out the strain gauge, so I had to try and concentrate hard on the digital read out to catch the exact number as it broke, it was impossible not to blink as it went bang!
the line I was using was/is not known as the greatest line out there, big brand, not Ozone or Slingshot or Naish. and not new, around a year of good use.
that is really interesting that an overhand knot was so much weaker than a figure of 8 knot.

to sleeve and figure of 8 all ends of your lines is very easy... just have all larks heads on the kite and leader lines. and dont get them teh wrong way around.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby rtz » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:00 am

What have you all found in bulk to use for sleeving material? Also how do you feed it through the machine for the zigzag stitch?

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby chibern » Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:10 am

rtz wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:00 am
What have you all found in bulk to use for sleeving material? Also how do you feed it through the machine for the zigzag stitch?
This works pretty well... https://www.instructables.com/id/Sew-a- ... on-a-line/

I've heard paracord works pretty good. Just pull the core out and thread the dyneema back through.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby OzBungy » Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:23 am

Normally you don't sleeve spliced lines. It is not really necessary and it is hard to get a tidy finish. It's easy to sleeve sewn loops, but splices are far superior to sewn loops.

Far better than sleeves are spliced pig tails using 2-3mm dyneema. You can make preset length ones with brummel splices, or use sewn eye splices to do the line length adjustments. It's easier and much neater to make new pigtails than to mess around with adjustment knots on leaders, particularly on front lines.

To sleeve kite line you can simply use a length of the line itself as the sleeve. Simply do a straight line splice to put the extra line on the inside or outside of the kite line.

To make the loop thicker you can insert a length of line inside the loop part and down the length of the bury. You have to make sure the inserted bit doesn't foul the entry point for the bury. Practice it and you'll see what I mean.

To add a cover over the loop you can insert the loop inside a second piece of line. You can either cut the ends and melt them and flare them with a FID then run the loop down the inside. That ends up a bit messy and ugly. The sleeve needs to be sewn to anchor it to the line.

Alternately you can go in through the sides then bury the end bits back into the main line. You can do a long bit down the bury of the main line. You still have to stop the bury short at the start of the entry point to the bury.

It is possible to insert a length of line inside another then do a normal splice. It can be a bugger to try and pull a double thickness bury through. I have done it, and also done it with bungy. It is much easier to do simple splices.

There's also the concept of a soft FID where you splice a thin bit of line on the end of a thicker piece. I've nutted one of those out myself but there are commercial products that look a lot more elegant.

Once you grasp the idea of how splicing works then you can imagine all sorts of ways to combine lengths of line and put bits inside and outside each other.

I've never tried it but I am imagining a brummel splice with a double splice going through the locking portion. The lock portions go across the line and that wouldn't be too hard to pull through a double thickness. You could then enter the single thickness bury section past the end of the double portion to finish your line. I suspect a normal splice and pig tail would be stronger and easier to do.
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby OzBungy » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:32 am

PS I have had lines snap at the end of the sleeving. Making any kind of edge causes a fatigue point that wears. Under no circumstances should you put heat shrink on lines. The edges of the heat shrink are quite sharp and cut through the line.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby longwhitecloud » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:08 am

The shrink wrap saga (snapping lines) was a result of heat affecting the strength of the line where the shrink wrap was applied... it was a disaster of an idea.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby OzBungy » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:15 am

longwhitecloud wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:08 am
The shrink wrap saga (snapping lines) was a result of heat affecting the strength of the line where the shrink wrap was applied... it was a disaster of an idea.
The heat shrink I know of was used on kevlar lines. They're pretty much impervious to heat. It was the hard corner causing a fatigue spot. Dyneema has poor heat resistance so heat shrink would be a very bad idea on that.

As for sheathing, I think it was mentioned that you could buy some thin sheathed line and pull the cover off and use that for sheathing. I used to do that when doing sewn loops.

I have experimented with sheathing spliced lines and been less than happy with the results. Without stitching the sheathing it moves around and bunches up. I gave it up as pointless. I have never tried nylon sheathing. That might be a bit more dense and fit the line better. You could make the spliced loops a little bigger then pull the nylon sheathing snug and put in a few stitches to lock it in. That might look quite nice.


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