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is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

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Herman
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby Herman » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:39 am

I agree with Ozbungy's conclusions regarding sleeving. Occasionally I use a longer loop and just let the sleeving float. You need the extra length to make it easier to set the larks head or handshake without catching the end of the sleeving. You could use a throat whipping to pin the sleeve and hold the tail but that would be another wear hinge. Sleeving has its uses.

A few years back I purchased my life time supply of black and red sleeving from jonnieeisler.com in the UK. They are still going and know their stuff.

Regards Herman.
Last edited by Herman on Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Pemba
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby Pemba » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:08 am

I've recently bought some sleeves. The supplier advises to thread the line through (through the side so as not to get the line in contact with the potential sharp edge of the sleeve), make the loop and just tie it off with two half hitch knots. This is obviously a bit ugly but it's very easy and getting the line length right is kind of Ok as well, since you can re do the knots easily. But would the line strength be affected a lot ? Maybe using something a bit more subtle than a half hitch in stead ?

Herman
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby Herman » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:32 pm

Pemba

The kitesurfing mantra I have lived by regarding flying line is that you generally lose ~20% of strength if you put a knot in a line, and the only kitesurfing flying line that it is acceptable to knot is Q power line. Q power line has a core and is not suitable for splicing.

It is often difficult to find hard and fast data but I think the above mantra is a good starting point. Although sleeving would increase knot radius and perhaps reduce strength loss I would never use knots to make loops in line that could be spliced. Also I would rather use a larks head to stopper knot than, a knotted loop, as the knot would not be in the fully loaded section of the line, (in say an old line that could not be spliced). Just my opinion of course!

Sleeving and stitching is also perfectly acceptable and is better than knotting!

Regards Herman

Afterthought: or are you just referring to one end of the sleeve and burrying the other end with the tail, if you are, possible perhaps but not worth the fibre disruption imho.
Last edited by Herman on Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:30 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby Foil » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:13 pm

passed with flying colours today,cut and spliced like a pro.

I ordered the d splicer tool but it was only getting to me after this week end,
so stopped off at our local B+Q on my way to a music shop to buy some guitar wire, and would you believe it B+Q had every choice of stainless wire on the planet, picked up a reel of 1.3mm and a reel of .9mm, over 30 mtrs on each reel all for £10.

and I can tell anyone trying this art for the very first time you do need to set up for the job.

As good as the video is from Gunnar, he is using the easiest line to show how to do a brummel splice, However all the spare bits of line I had in my garage were far to unwilling to accept any wire pushing through, even the outer braid was to tight to loosen by hand.

So after many failed attempts, and chucking the training line bits in the bin, I picked up my nice new ozone SK99 line set,
1.5mm and 2mm front and back sets.
I would not say It was easy for a first timer, I took flipping ages to finish my first complete splice,watching the video in slow motion as I tackled each step helped loads,
but I still got the first steps wrong,
the hardest part to get right was feeding the wire up the center of the tail for the bury part,
it takes a lot of practice to prevent the wire popping through the side,
thinning the tail end to avoid the bump was easy with a new blade in my modeling knife, scissors were rubbish at this, well mine were.

but all in all I ended the day with very neat, pro looking, spliced ends, which were length perfect as the care taken to measure and mark up was epic.

The thinner 1.5mm lines turned out to be much easier to do, the pull throughs were easier and faster, and the wire up the tail center was much easier,
the stainless wire worked perfectly, I did have to pinch the looped end to near closed with pliers, which helped a lot.

The last two splices I did more quickly as I could remember the steps and did not need the video running like I did for the first two splices,
it really scrambled my brain completing the first splice,

but splice five was a walk in the park.

loads more to do tomorrow, and now looking forward to it, not dreading it like I was before today.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby Pemba » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:12 pm

Herman wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:32 pm
Pemba

The kitesurfing mantra I have lived by regarding flying line is that you generally lose ~20% of strength if you put a knot in a line, and the only kitesurfing flying line that it is acceptable to knot is Q power line. Q power line has a core and is not suitable for splicing.

It is often difficult to find hard and fast data but I think the above mantra is a good starting point. Although sleeving would increase knot radius and perhaps reduce strength loss I would never use knots to make loops in line that could be spliced. Also I would rather use a larks head to stopper knot than, a knotted loop, as the knot would not be in the fully loaded section of the line, (in say an old line that could not be spliced). Just my opinion of course!

Sleeving and stitching is also perfectly acceptable and is better than knotting!

Regards Herman

Afterthought: or are you just referring to one end of the sleeve and burrying the other end with the tail, if you are, possible perhaps but not worth the fibre disruption imho.
Ok, I also found it surprising that that was their suggestion. But I guess it sells easier like that. I don't have a machine to sew it but can't be much of an issue doing it by hand. I'm not so convinced by this brummel splice on used lines. They're already slightly frayed, dividing them in the middle doesn't make things any better. Video's look OK because they always use much thicker lines for the sake of visibility but when I did one on a used kiteline, it didn't look very strong, probably on new lines things are better. So I'll sleeve and sew. Regarding the afterthought: no I was referring to a putting a sleeve, looping the sleeved end of the line and knot it off, leaving a sleeved loop with knot in a section of line that carries the full load. As basic as possible. Well, I'd have used an alternative knot probably.

Herman
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby Herman » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:46 pm

Pemba

Imho you have made the right choice. I have hand sewn many sleeved tails without problem and as I explained above the tail does not do much anyway. It is also often the only way to cope with used line.

I have frequently seen the knotted method you described on small stunt kites where power is not an issue, but never for kitesurfing!!

Regards Herman

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby OzBungy » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:42 pm

Pemba wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:08 am
I've recently bought some sleeves. The supplier advises to thread the line through (through the side so as not to get the line in contact with the potential sharp edge of the sleeve), make the loop and just tie it off with two half hitch knots. .....
That method is a throwback to toy kites and nylon kite lines. That was how it was done before the invention of dyneema and kitesurfing and real power kites.
Foil wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:13 pm
....

the hardest part to get right was feeding the wire up the center of the tail for the bury part,
it takes a lot of practice to prevent the wire popping through the side,
thinning the tail end to avoid the bump was easy with a new blade in my modeling knife, scissors were rubbish at this, well mine were.

...
If you're going to do a lot of splicing buy these. https://d-splicer.com/d-16-scissors-2/

Image

You've probably worked it out but you don't so much push the wire into the line, you pinch the line to make it slack and push it down onto the wire.

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby faklord » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:46 am

For cutting Dyneema (and Carbon) I have found
Any reasonable quality scissors, that will hold and edge, will do.
BUT the trick is
occasionally sharpen scissors with a course (180 grit) sharpening ‘stone’, across the blades. (Eg This effectively puts micro serrations on the blades that discourage the slippery fibres from sliding away from the cutting edge.
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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby merl » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:39 pm

D-splicer scissors cost a lot - €50+ - seems like a lot for stainless steel.

I find that ceramic knives from a dollar store to be great. They don't last for so long but when newish they cut dyneema beautifully, and you can buy a stack of them for 50€...

Faklord: nice tip - you just sharpen the scissor blades in the obvious way or are you doing something funky?

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Re: is it that easy to splice my own lines, SK99 600kg or-

Postby OzBungy » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:00 am

It can be difficult or expensive to buy line in different colors if you want to color code left/right/front pigtails. I make mine in grey dyneema then wrap some colored ribbon around the pig tail and sew it into place. That works well.

I also use it to finish the ends of depower lines to avoid fraying. Grosgrain ribbon is best, but I mostly raid the mrs scrap ribbon box for anything with a suitable color.


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