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state of the art wave kite foiling

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joekitetime
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Re: state of the art wave kite foiling

Postby joekitetime » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:11 pm

Agreed. Like many of you, I am a surfer first, then kite, then foil. I find a dramatic difference between the 3.

In surfing you are at the mercy of the wave. When kiting came along I could pretty easily jump the waves, outrun the waves, and outrun the closeout sections. Then with foiling, multiply that even more because the foil is so fast.

What I enjoyed about short board surfing, and skating halfpipes, was converting speed into manuever. Bashing the lip or coping, sliding or skidding momentarily out of control, then regaining control and continuing. On a surfboard with kite you can do that and it is super fun in the right conditions and you feel like you are cheating because it is so easy compared to regular surfing where you don't have that mega power pedal at your disposal.

I love foiling, but the one component that drives me crazy is my inability to focus the mega speed into a giant, sloppy, spray throwing skid. Same thing we did with kids on bikes, then later with beater cars in dirt - skidding and sliding and shooting off dust or dirt or water. Nothing better than having your buddies paddle back out in the channel and you slash right in front of them and swamp them with spray. Oh, and I failed to mention snowboarding where you can do the same motion.

So yes, foiling "looks" so different than what the foiler is actually experiencing. And, to me, the distinct difference from other seemingly related sports is that while we ride on a board that looks like a snowboard, surfboard or skateboard, we really aren't riding anything even remotely related to those - we are riding on top of an airplane and the characteristics are completely different than a board. It is speed and glide and weightlessness and quietness.

I love foiling, but it is just different.
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jumptheshark
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Re: state of the art wave kite foiling

Postby jumptheshark » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:23 pm

BraCuru wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:34 pm
When I was talking about wave riding on hydrofoil in 2013 everybody was laughing. Everybody.
To be honest, I was laughing at foiling in general back then!


Props buddy, you are well ahead of the curve.
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jumptheshark
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Re: state of the art wave kite foiling

Postby jumptheshark » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:55 pm

joekitetime wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:11 pm
we are riding on top of an airplane and the characteristics are completely different than a board. It is speed and glide and weightlessness and quietness.

I love foiling, but it is just different.
Give it time. Oyvind was the first guy to really show that you can break out and slide a foil. Get past locked in absolute of being locked in on foil mentally and it opens up the imagination. Learn to do it and the imagination begins to go wild. We are at the very conception of what is going to be common place in a decade. Floaters, tube rides, vert airs with re entry and just the simple hack with spray from a breeching wingtip are all possible and will make for super sick viewing. The feeling of breaking out the fins as you would on a surfboard is closely matched by breeching or airing a foil. It's super fun when you begin to land them with consistency. Not that impressive to watch yet, but give it time. The potential is there and it will absolutely impress the educated eye when younger talent begin to do it their way. Right now its all old guys, but that's also kinda cool. In what other sport do we get to lead the charge? Even if it is just for the moment. I search and search for footage and take my cues from the guys in the Gorge like Jim Stringfellow et al. Those guys are charging ahead and breaking preconceived ideas of what foiling is. Not one of them below the age of 40. I'm amazed at how many regular guys the world over are now really very good foilers. We get to lay the blueprint. Think of Flash Austin's twirly dangle airs or Robbie's table tops in comparison to today's KOTA. There will always be generations that follow, and they will carry that torch farther than we can imagine. Foiling in waves will be big, maybe not in absolute numbers, but definitely in terms of performance sport.
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Re: state of the art wave kite foiling

Postby cor » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:07 pm

BraCuru wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:34 pm
When I was talking about wave riding on hydrofoil in 2013 everybody was laughing. Everybody.
This is so true. When I got my HF in 2016, everybody was laughing at me. Now almost everybody has one here. Same goes for harnesses with stiff carbon composite back. I bought one in 2017. Everybody was saying "totally unecessary!" and "way too expensive"? Now almost everybody has one or a similar one from ride engine etc.

People tend to laugh at things they've never tried or do not understand.

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Re: state of the art wave kite foiling

Postby juandesooka » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:40 pm

Bracuru: that looks super fun, as a kitefoiler who loves playing in waves, "I'd tap that" for sure!

Though in stepping back, with maximum objectivity, I am sure that surfers would say "that's not surfing". You are doing turns in the waves and momentarily feeling the waves power in acceleration, but most of time you are not actually on the wave using its power. IMHO that is what surfing is. [and I want to be clear, not putting down your riding whatsoever!!! just evaluating it in light of the OP's point in this thread]

But connecting this to flyboy's post above, those Baltic waves look like they would be super fun (epic!) for sup foil or surf foil. The magic of these options is you can take waves that are utterly crappy for normal surfing and make them awesome. If you know anyone with a set up you can borrow, sometime when the swell is on like this, try ditching the kite and just paddle in, you will find it quite different and quite the rush. Though the learning curve does have its bumps ... you immediately realize how much balance you get from that kite bar in your hands, once it's gone and it's just you standing on the foil in a moving wave. It is even more pronounced in prone/surf foiling, because in sup foil you have a paddle you can kind of lean on like a crutch. ;-)

And then back to OP again: just don't expect people on the beach or surfers to be impressed by your foil surfing shenanigans, it is fun as heck, but sure doesn't look like much.

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Re: state of the art wave kite foiling

Postby jumptheshark » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:59 pm

Semantics.

Was out at our best regional point a couple weeks back in really sweet conditions. Windsurfers, me on foil, one prone foil surfer. I was well impressed with him getting three to four times the ride length that I have ever seen a prone non foil surfer get at the same spot. He would paddle out, catch a couple rides, paddle back in and walk back up to the put in. I would always wait for him to clear the area before going into the same break and could get into the wave at the exact same spot, ride his ride length, use the kite to clear a little wash and ride another triple his ride length, hop over the back onto the next and ride another triple his ride length. Could hear him whoop in stoke from the beach when I really put a few turns together. Both of us know I was not "surfing", neither really cared. Dude was chill and we were egging each other on all day. So much better than the stink eye wafting off most of the windsurfers. You'd think they were at work!

For sure its not "surfing" but if you accrue more than triple the actual face time, whats it matter?

I'm no longer going to give people grief for their riding choices. Straps, boots, SB, TT, foil, SUP, even wing. Whatever.

Real surfers might be cooler, but I'm getting to the point my riding can speak for itself. It's kiting through and through, but you can't look at it and not see the surfing.

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Re: state of the art wave kite foiling

Postby juandesooka » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:19 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:59 pm
For sure its not "surfing" but if you accrue more than triple the actual face time, whats it matter?

I'm no longer going to give people grief for their riding choices. Straps, boots, SB, TT, foil, SUP, even wing. Whatever.

Real surfers might be cooler, but I'm getting to the point my riding can speak for itself. It's kiting through and through, but you can't look at it and not see the surfing.
Yup, semantics ... but that was only stated in relation to the OP in the thread, more or less paraphrased as "surfing is rad, kitesurfing in waves comes pretty close, can foiling match it?". And the best answer so far is from Joekitetime, that it's fundamentally different, rad in its own way, and the key is stop trying to equate it with "surfing" and rather just enjoy it for what it is.

Good session report, gotta love the cross-sport stoke, appreciating each other's contribution to the fun factor. Windsurfer attitude, hey!?! :lol:

Real surfers are DEFINITELY NOT cooler, and the fact they they think they are is the strongest evidence of the disconnect. I have spent most of my adult life chasing surf, defining my career and life around it ... and come to realize the worst thing about surfing is the surfers. Or at least the arrogant loudmouths who have come to define the surfer attitude. They can all go F themselves, far as I'm concerned ... ride what turns you on, chase the stoke, be stoked for others, don't judge.

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Re: state of the art wave kite foiling

Postby Eduardo » Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:28 am

joekitetime wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:11 pm
...

So yes, foiling "looks" so different than what the foiler is actually experiencing. And, to me, the distinct difference from other seemingly related sports is that while we ride on a board that looks like a snowboard, surfboard or skateboard, we really aren't riding anything even remotely related to those - we are riding on top of an airplane and the characteristics are completely different than a board. It is speed and glide and weightlessness and quietness.

I love foiling, but it is just different.
Nice post. At least as different as skiing in powder vs. banging off moguls - different feeling and different skills. I think it's a losing game for us to try to get the same feeling and moves. There is nothing like smacking a tight turn off the lip and we can never get that feeling from a foil. But foils are giving some new thrills that I'm still discovering as a relative newcomer. The thrills are definitely there.

As for how it looks, I have seen some talented foilers in waves in Mauritius and Maui while I was on a surf board. It never looks as good. It's just not as dynamic. But who cares? They are having as much fun if not more and are combining board, foil, wave, and kite in new ways. Maybe there will also be some new foil designs coming that are specialized for DTL wave riding, so I also expect we will be saying very different things in a few years.
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Re: state of the art wave kite foiling

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:03 pm

Once I could actually ride, I knew that I wasn't interested in going fast in straight lines but was very interested in carving around and trying to catch the swell and coast about. Luckily I got in just earlier enough before decent SUP foils came out :D

Foiling for me feels like carving decent powder on a snowboard. But even riding the lift back up is fun.

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Re: state of the art wave kite foiling

Postby jumptheshark » Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:13 pm

There are some pretty good surf foilers. There is plenty to learn from them. Kites save a lot of effort and allow for tiny boards and smaller more maneuverable foils. The potential is ridiculous.


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