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High aspect wings for kite foiling

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Re: High aspect wings for kite foiling

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:24 am

I think one could compare high span wings versus low span wings with board length, almost same effect in terms of turning.

If you have a 100 cm light board, and a 250 cm long heavy board - both can turn really narrow, no doubt, the very same in this respect both of them.

BUT, the short light board is superfast for initiating turns, feels and is more lively, and side to side transitions hugely faster :naughty:

8) Peter

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Re: High aspect wings for kite foiling

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:41 am

Can see that in that vid he can certainly get a tight turn, but it's also clearly a pivot and not really a carve. His actual carves are pretty slow and require him to commit fully to one direction. Albatross wing..... albatross turn. Sill looks pretty fun in those little waves. Foils make mountains out of mole hills and I love them for it! I cling to my initial assumption just based on the physics, but definitely concede that you can force a tight pivot. He can only really crank those when he is slowing while coming off the top to catch the wave again. Once riding down swell they are pretty drawn out turns. I bet that wing feels quite locked in at speed and would bore a lot of kiters. Let me rephrase my initial assertion. You can certainly get a sharp yaw turn, but there is very little roll maneuverability when the wingspan gets big and the sensation of maneuverable carving requires quick roll. Cool vid, but he needs every bit of propulsion he can get and sacrifices what I see as a key part of the way many kiters ride to get it.

Horses for courses. Exciting times to see different wing evolution, but I see these highly efficient albatross wings as best suited for wing and SUP and prone surfing where you require that type of efficiency just to remain on foil.

It's very much the same with boards and kites, there is always a trade off. Prioritizing efficiency above all is the surest way to drain most of the fun out of the ride.

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Re: High aspect wings for kite foiling

Postby stevez » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:40 pm

The one way I've seen it's possible to get a tighter carving turn is to breach the wing, or way least half of it. Of course that takes a lot of skill.
I'm just wondering when the first hand reviews are going to come through. I'm surprised there aren't any yet. Hopefully I'll get a chance to try one out for myself sometime soon.
As much as you can power up the kite so maybe you don't need the most ultra-efficient wing, some of us are trying to optimise for the smallest kite possible, for max freedom once on a wave.
Many kitefoilers, exactly for this reason, moved to surf wings not originally intended for kiting, but now surf foilers are dumping them for high aspect.
There's such a big difference in design between the HA and the previous generation surf wings. Maybe the sweet spot for kite foiling will find itself somewhere in the middle.
Will be very interesting to see what people are riding a year or two from now.

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Re: High aspect wings for kite foiling

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:53 pm

For sure, I totally agree. Not bashing at all.

It really is horses for courses. I have settled into the idea that I DON'T want to go with the smallest possible kite. In the same breath, I don't want to be overpowered at all. That's just me. For those who want to get the sensation of zero kite pull, this may be in their future.

I think that the masses of future kite foilers ride mostly junk swell and conditions that favor the middle ground when it comes to a lot of parameters, from wing A/R to kite size, to strut length, line length or board size.

Everything should swing to the extremes to give us a better understanding of the trade offs and conditions suited. I predict that five years from now, the most popular kite foil set up will not be an extreme on any front. Mid aspect kites, in mid sizes (5-9m) with mid aspect rather thin profile wings, on mid length masts, with small to mid sized boards, on mid length lines.

I know for sure the conditions I ride most often are just not good enough that I want to sacrifice decent kite power, or decent top speeds. Maneuverability of both kite and foil/board are probably the top of my desired spec sheet, but not at the extreme sacrifice of any other spec.
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Re: High aspect wings for kite foiling

Postby drsurf » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:59 pm

stevez wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:40 pm
Will be very interesting to see what people are riding a year or two from now.
If you've tried a Flysurfer Peak4 you may find the answer to your question...
And you don't have to wait a year or two :D

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Re: High aspect wings for kite foiling

Postby stevez » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:57 am

drsurf wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:59 pm
stevez wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:40 pm
Will be very interesting to see what people are riding a year or two from now.
If you've tried a Flysurfer Peak4 you may find the answer to your question...
And you don't have to wait a year or two :D
No it's definitely not going to answer my question because my question was about foils, not kites :roll:

For the moment I'm sorted when it comes to kites, I'm on the clouds and I'm delighted with them.
That being said, when it's time to upgrade I'll definitely consider single skin foil kites like the peak 4.

But this is another (although related) matter.
jumptheshark wrote: It really is horses for courses. I have settled into the idea that I DON'T want to go with the smallest possible kite. In the same breath, I don't want to be overpowered at all. That's just me. For those who want to get the sensation of zero kite pull, this may be in their future.
Totally agree with this. It's not like there's going be a single optimal for everyone in all scenarios. I generally am rigging up the smallest kite possible when riding a pure surf wing, especially a bigger one, but in flat water with a freeride kite wing I may go 2 (cloud) sizes bigger. The HA wings are definitely appealing to smallest kite in swell scenario, but they may actually sustain riding under higher kite power.

I've found with direct downwind swell riding, you don't necessarily always want to be riding the smallest kite possible anyway, as when you're charging towards the kite the slightly bigger kite may stay up better. You definitely don't want to be anywhere near overpowered though.

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Re: High aspect wings for kite foiling

Postby drsurf » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:09 am

Hi Stevez.
When you're talking about HA foils which pump well and are great for downwinders, you need a kite that will just get out of the way but be there when you need it. That's what a Peak4 does. I gave a foiler at my beach a try of my Peak4 and he came in blown away with what it could do especially with surf foils. He is now reconsidering his entire quiver of kites.
Once you try one you'll know what I mean.

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Re: High aspect wings for kite foiling

Postby Kitedougiefresh » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:08 pm

Agree 100% with drsurf. I was a cloud rider for 7 years and just yesterday sold my last cloud. As good as they are, they do not even come close to drifting like the Peak 4. I knew with 2 minutes of riding one that i had found my new kites. Everyone who tries one becomes a better rider in the surf. They are also the most neutral responding kite I have ever ridden. I am even going to try the 11m which has gotten mixed reviews on the forum.

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Re: High aspect wings for kite foiling

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:23 pm

Been thinking about this turning thing ...

IMHO it's a combination of board technique, how you use the kite and a combination of gear eg. mast length, fuse length, rear wing size...

This week I put the ~90cm mast on after a year of the 75cm ... huge difference, no way it's carving as fast and tight as the shorter mast.
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Re: High aspect wings for kite foiling

Postby slowboat » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:41 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:23 pm
Been thinking about this turning thing ...

IMHO it's a combination of board technique, how you use the kite and a combination of gear eg. mast length, fuse length, rear wing size...

This week I put the ~90cm mast on after a year of the 75cm ... huge difference, no way it's carving as fast and tight as the shorter mast.
Everything matters for sure but you cannot fight the width of a high AR wing vs a low AR wing (of same surface area). You simply cannot yaw a wider wing as fast


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