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backstall on smaller kites

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NYKiter
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Re: backstall on smaller kites

Postby NYKiter » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:49 pm

:alarm: :alarm: Danger Will Robinson :alarm: :alarm:

I tried using my old Rebel quiver for foiling and found the 5th line to be trouble.....kite flops on its back when you drive down wind and inverts in mid air....inverts A LOT......quite amazing actually....I loved my Rebels.....suppose you could get used to them but I got rid of them ASAP.....

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Re: backstall on smaller kites

Postby joekitetime » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:58 pm

Personally I like the features of the cloud kites, except the one in the video. I like the idea of being able to power and depower the kite at will. Beyond that, I don't want to look at the kite or know it is there. Out of sight, out of mind. I hate staring at the kite.

So my complaint about the cloud style of flying is it reminds me of guys at kite parks flying their trick kites - 20 loops right, 20 loops left, stall, fly backwards, nose dive, pull out, etc. Sure, it is cool, but bores me to death.

The cloud style that I've seen develop is a cross between "trick" kite flying, and foiling, or kiting. That style is just not for me.

I like the on/off features of the clouds for sure, but to say that being able to "spin" a cloud kite while on foil is an attribute is not something I'd agree with. I feel like telling that kiter to quit screwing around and fly the damn kite!

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Re: backstall on smaller kites

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:25 pm

Flyboy wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:35 pm
plummet wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:29 pm
Like this?

Back stalling isnt a problem its a feature. If you Wrap your head around it and practice, practice. Once mastered you cab use the back stall method in various ways!
In the meantime don't be so ham fisting when pulling the bar in. Find the sweet spot and ride there if you dont want back stall.
Also, pull the trim in. You can trim out the back stall if need be. Personally, I set all my bars up with +4" of rear line tension so I evoke back stall sooner if need be.
That's a bit like saying to a beginning kitesurfer: "kite looping isn't a problem it's a feature". :cool2:

But it IS a feature, kitelooping :D

When I teach one of the first thing they have to learn is bodydragging in the water, looping the kite, very important.

So they get to know the full power, and learn to control this, to get out of a powerpull loop when needed, and learn to fly a kite upside down and with crossed lines.

Also, teaching to handle backstalling is the very first thing I teach, when they got the kite in the air, or in the water learning to relaunch.
Yes it takes a couple of session till its there, but IMO the most important thing in order to learn to kitesurf, and fly a kite :rollgrin:

I have seen several who has learned themeselves I believe, or with a teacher not teaching this - they often pull the bar and choke the kite in lulls, even after several years of kiting, what a shame :wink:

Kitelooping and backstall handling is the very first you should learn, when learning kitesurfing IMO.

For relaunching it is so important to know what backstall is, for learners, and how to handle this, so they can find the balance, instead of getting the kite to tumble on its back - a fine sensitive balance :D

8) Peter

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Re: backstall on smaller kites

Postby Flyboy » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:54 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:25 pm
Flyboy wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:35 pm
plummet wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:29 pm
Like this?

Back stalling isnt a problem its a feature. If you Wrap your head around it and practice, practice. Once mastered you cab use the back stall method in various ways!
In the meantime don't be so ham fisting when pulling the bar in. Find the sweet spot and ride there if you dont want back stall.
Also, pull the trim in. You can trim out the back stall if need be. Personally, I set all my bars up with +4" of rear line tension so I evoke back stall sooner if need be.
That's a bit like saying to a beginning kitesurfer: "kite looping isn't a problem it's a feature". :cool2:

But it IS a feature, kitelooping :D

When I teach one of the first thing they have to learn is bodydragging in the water, looping the kite, very important.

So they get to know the full power, and learn to control this, to get out of a powerpull loop when needed, and learn to fly a kite upside down and with crossed lines.

Also, teaching to handle backstalling is the very first thing I teach, when they got the kite in the air, or in the water learning to relaunch.
Yes it takes a couple of session till its there, but IMO the most important thing in order to learn to kitesurf, and fly a kite :rollgrin:

I have seen several who has learned themeselves I believe, or with a teacher not teaching this - they often pull the bar and choke the kite in lulls, even after several years of kiting, what a shame :wink:

Kitelooping and backstall handling is the very first you should learn, when learning kitesurfing IMO.

For relaunching it is so important to know what backstall is, for learners, and how to handle this, so they can find the balance, instead of getting the kite to tumble on its back - a fine sensitive balance :D

8) Peter
Yeah ... I hear the Vikings used to teach their kids to swim by throwing them overboard in the middle of the Nordsøen. :)

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Re: backstall on smaller kites

Postby jakemoore » Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:55 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:02 pm
jakemoore wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:05 pm
The one I had that was a no go would only turn if it was backstalling in 20 knot winds. Maybe in 30-40 it would be good? Not relevant for me because I bought it for my son primarily and for hydrofoil as well.
I think this is very wrong :roll:

They are not designed specifically for high winds...
If some were, that was the last pile of sh.. kites I would stay away from for life, if they only worked in really high winds.
Yes that particular kite was very wrong for me. 5 minutes of beach flying between my son and I and We put it right back in the bag. I’m giving the brand the benefit of the doubt because my other experiences have been good and the shop has given me reliably great customer service.

The other thing about backstall is some kites tolerate it well and it’s fun to play with. Clouds Peaks and Hyperlinks come to mind. Others collapse when they fly backwards too fast.

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Re: backstall on smaller kites

Postby grigorib » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:15 am

Interesting question which touched on my past experience.
Few years back had a choice to buy a 5.5m Kahoona or 5m Rally and watching local riders enjoy Kahoonas I gave it a chance (and it was a mistake)

I thought I’m getting myself a very high wind jumping kite and average wind foiling kite and a trainer kite to get kids learn on it.
While it performed great as 35-55 knots kite (rode afternoon of hurricane Matthew on it in OBX), it did backstall a lot in average, lighter winds so taking it out with a foil in under 20 knots was “all backstall you can eat” experience. Which also made it less useful for getting kids on because for their weight it was right size but it would take too much kite attention and piloting skills from them to be able to ride it.

Next was a 5m Rally and it is actually awesome for all three purposes with minimal backstall. I foiled with it in 16 knots on 633 wing and while it’s possible to oversheet it and backstall on purpose for foiling fun, the undesired backstall is very minimal. Also works great for learning.

So to OPs question - yes, I’d say it is the kite


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