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whats in a Y!

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neilhapgood
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whats in a Y!

Postby neilhapgood » Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:45 pm

hi all,

I just tried a 2019 7m duotone neo and really liked it on the foil, got me going in far less wind than my usual 7m which is a 2012 rebel, and felt smoother and generally more pleasant.

however I was using an RRD bar with both front lines coming down to the bar.

I just read the neo is meant to be flown on a high Y bar.

Any idea if this makes much difference on a foil, would be nice not to invest in another bar!

Thanks!

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Re: whats in a Y!

Postby grigorib » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:14 pm

If it works with low-V stay with low-V.
High-Y is questionable from safety and usability perspectives

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Re: whats in a Y!

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:13 am

Disagree...

Use whatever bar you got, it will work just fine for most or all kites.

I got and use both types, but prefer a high Y, no doubt, also from a safety perspective.

8) Peter

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Re: whats in a Y!

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:54 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:13 am
I got and use both types, but prefer a high Y, no doubt, also from a safety perspective.

8) Peter
For real? You're one of the few :lol:

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Re: whats in a Y!

Postby Wazza Foil » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:43 am

Low Y for me as makes self landing a kite easier and safer in almost all wind

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Re: whats in a Y!

Postby OzBungy » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:52 am

A kite is designed with a specific angle on the Y or V to give it a specific shape. Arguably the tight angles on the high-Y lock in the shape better. If you use a low-V bar on a high-Y kite then the angle of the front lines is straighter. That can lead to the kite flattening out and the tips flaring. That's supposed to be a bad thing. That's what the pros say on any videos where they talk about that stuff.

For a while I flew my old high-Y kites with a low-V bar and I thought it improved the kite with more power and better turning.

Now there is no way I would use a high-Y bar. Low V is so much cleaner and simpler and user friendly.

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Re: whats in a Y!

Postby tomtom » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:58 am

Neo definitely not perform well on low V - maybe on very short lines. It somehow perform on low V but its like 20% worse kite. Peters love for high Y is mysterious to me also :) It have some some sense from foil in lines perspective though.

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Re: whats in a Y!

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:05 pm

tomtom wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:58 am
Neo definitely not perform well on low V - maybe on very short lines. It somehow perform on low V but its like 20% worse kite. Peters love for high Y is mysterious to me also :) It have some some sense from foil in lines perspective though.

Got nothing to do with foil in the lines, it only happens the first years of hydrofoiling, right?

See almost no downsides with a high V, but almost fifty fifty in terms of advantages for each setup depending on what you think means the most for you personally.

The discussion is in the main forum too, where most hate high V's, thus the thread.

In terms of foiling there is another twist not mentioned, namely that as many of us dont use normal linelengths 20-23 meter on LEI kites for hydrofoiling, the high V makes it possible to use older lines to extend the frontlines without having knots or splices on these, so only the rear lines need extensions.
This is SO much cleaner IMO, having extension knots and loops on all 4 should be avoided.

Different likings, just my view :D

From the other forum:
Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:09 pm
I agree can't see many major benefits with a high V, but not many downsides either, so depends on what you find important personally I would say.

Got a lot of experience as use both on my kites, although primarily a high V on most kites.


To the discussion about launches, many are wrong IMO.
When I slide launch, i pull a rear line if needed, to get it on the side, instead of a front line, but most often not needed when you position correct.
Regarding wear on the lines when slide launching, a high V is better, as the front line(s) will be tight when sliding on the ground, so if the lower part should catch something, it is almost indestructible.

A thicker line will be stronger and way less fragile, and also less drag than two lines similar strength total.

Which also means less risk of wear at the point where lines cross after having looped the kite.

Even IF the single front line should ever break, it is not a big issue as the kite will just flap down with no power :D
Whereas if a frontline snaps having a low V, many kites will go into a fully powered deathloop.

Regarding self landing in high winds on smooth surfaces, where the normal dive and pull an upper line is not sufficient, but a climb up the front line(s) is needed, I really like that I can grab easy on the thick line up to the V.
From there it is more risky as you have to hold two thin lines with your bare hands the last part, and you don't want it to slip when on the upper wind limit.
Without a high V you have this risk all the way up :(

I often use a linecam, and having a low V is fun the very first times, but then it gets boring that you can not see anything besides yourself :wink:
Unless you choose super wideangle on the GoPro, which gives shitty pictures/video, everything gets distorted apart from the very center.
With a high V you can use a normal linear mode, thus get good pictures/video and also the closer surroundings or a fellow rider, but still not so far away that unusable (like a wideangle cam in the kite is).
Definitely an advantage too with the high V.


Disadvantages with a high V, is low wind water relaunch, where pulling the opposite frontline sometimes is the very trick to make it possible, and you can't really do this with a high V.

And you are able to dive and self land a bit easier with a low V where you can pull the frontline the last part.
Also possible with a high V, but not in as much wind.

8) Peter

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Re: whats in a Y!

Postby Si_B » Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:22 pm

Just had my first session on the twin tip in 30-40knots on the Neo after recently switching from Rally’s. Amazing kite, hoping it will be good on the foil too. Was flying the with Duotone bar with the high V so can’t comment on your set up, but if you were happy with it and the kite didn’t deform or do anything strange then I’d just carry on. Maybe try to borrow a mates bar with a high V split if you can?

Simon

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Re: whats in a Y!

Postby mmac » Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:11 pm

Hmmm, I fly Neo's in 12m, 9m & 6m sizes. I'm using the Duotone Click Bar with the high Y removed. As others have mentioned, I find it easier to self land in the low Y position and I didn't care for the line cleat wrapping and tangling lines when self launching. To me, the Neo performance seems equal or possibly better in the low Y configuration and is also easier to self launch and land.


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