Next foil - Armstrong 1200 or Moses 633

[wolfieee]

Hi Guys,

I’m in the market for a new foil, and I’m considering the Moses 633 or Armstrong 1200.

If any of you out there have kited with both, would you mind sharing your thoughts on the two?

I’m coming from a slingshot fKite setup, which includes 71 cm mast and space spaceskate (formerly h4) front wing. I ride an alien air 4’ 8” board strapless. I weight about 180 pounds.

This is my first year. I mostly ride an inland lake near my house (1 mile x 0.5 mile) and ride in 10 to 20 mph (maybe more?) winds. I fly cabrinha drifters (7 and 9m) as well as a 12m wainman.

I also kitesurf waves with a surfboard and switch from my surfboard to a hydrofoil when the wind gets light.

I’m not a speed demon - going too fast on a foil freaks me out!

I’m also considering getting a longer mast to avoid breaching the backside of waves and swell. Maybe an 85cm.

I’m sure it all comes down to personal preference; nonetheless, I thought I’d post this in case anyone has the time and interest to comment on their experiences between to two foils.

Cheers,
wolfieee

[slowboat]

They both ride really well and that aspect is personal preference. The Armstrong has better build quality and will last you longer. It also doesn’t have all the sharp edges that Moses has and is all carbon but is more expensive.

[oregonkiter]

Love my 633. Have not tried the Armstrong. If you go with 633 via Moses, or Slingshot sand the trailing edges of the wings flat-at 90 deg to wing surface--with 400 grit. Does not change wing's performance, but does take the razor blade off... They come out of the factory way too sharp, though I have heard they have/will change that. Mine is a year old, and has held up beautifully. High wind, low wind, flat, swell...just works well. I have not seen, nor heard of any build issues with Onda/Slingshot 633 set up in Hood River, and there are perhaps 50-100 folks riding that wing on a given- weekend in the Hood River area. Amazing wing set!

[Peter_Frank]

The Armstrong mast is a short 85 cm mast right?

I would never buy one of these, but apparently so many different views on this...

You are still learning and use a super short mast, but when more experienced, I think you would love the 90 to 95 cm masts most seem to prefer for overall conditions.

SUP foilers/surfers seem to like the short masts more, I guess it is because they need these in order not to hit the reef, and because they are not as sensitive to touchdowns as many of us kite wave foilers are, so when doing both this and kitefoil they prefer the same mast as used to, or because of cost naturally, having only one is a LOT easier

The Onda Kite 91 would be my advice to you, either that, or the same but with a 683 wing.
Almost the same, the 633 a bit easier and more surfy, the 683 goes better upwind and a tad faster - but in the same range and not hugely different actually so just choose what you think is what you will like in the future.

Of course I think (as I ride these) the KETOS are the very best, but also quite expensive, and I guess you would like a cheaper foil and with a plate mount, thus I recommend one of the two above, and you will have a perfect foil for years IMO

Peter

[Windigo1]

I haven't tried the Armstrong but I have the 633 it does everything smoothly you can't go wrong it's probably the most popular carbon foil on the market for a good reason!

[tomtom]

I heard that armstrong is on slower side. For me - i dont want slow foil. Im mean really slow foil. Look at profile thickness

[slowboat]

Good comments from everyone.

Armstrong does make a 95 cm mast.

You might be someone who doesn’t want what everyone else has.

Note that both the Armstrong 1200 and the newer 633 float in their sides. This can be a real pain in some circumstances.

Ketos looks great but not many around in North America.

[PurdyKiter]

Note that both the Armstrong 1200 and the newer 633 float in their sides. This can be a real pain in some circumstances.

Floating on it's side post crash. This can be a real pain. I generally love my 633/91 Onda, but when you have the crash and it's somewhat light with minimal kite help the body-drag to retrieve your board can be a huge effort. Think about a twintip that races away upwind and you'll get the picture.
On balance I love this setup and use it almost daily when there's a breeze, but be forewarned.
Once, when I was struggling with my 12m Soul crash & relaunch I needed a rescue jet-ski since there was absolutely no way I'd ever see the Moses again.... it was that far upwind.

[Peter_Frank]

I would not think about floating or not.

My estimate would be that half of us like this and the other half of us find it annoying, and you can not know before after a long time

Peter

[mar menor]

+1 Moses T38 and 633 and I love the fact that it floats on side and does not race away downwind