Next foil - Armstrong 1200 or Moses 633

[jumptheshark]

I just bought a new foil after four years of experimenting with wing size and mast length.

I don't have the luxury of trying before choosing, but consider myself adept at researching these things (have been kiting for over 15 years). The 633 was second on my list.

I went with Lift 170 classic, 81cm mast. Stoked with it for lake riding of all kinds from flat to waves, 10-25+ knots. It's thin profile with easy speed but like the others mentioned has the size to slow down and shape to make it all smooth as hell. It's full carbon with foam core, well built and very light. Was also the most economical full carbon option. The only service I have engaged was the purchase and it was two day delivery.

For what it's worth.

[Sfollis]

Without a doubt, go with the 633. Don’t even consider the 683 as it isn’t any easier and only a tad faster than the 633. A foil that causes the board to float partially on its side is a definite bonus when learning/intermediate as it won’t race away from you if/when you come off.

[Wazza Foil]

I have 683 and 790 Moses - love both but atm using the 790 as it gets me going in shallow water a bit quicker.
Neither have any drag feeling at the speeds I ride.
790 is ideal for learning starts, jibing etc due to glide/lift and stability.
Both work well for SUP foiling as well.
Both are silky smooth and easy to foil in my opinion.
I used 633 once however wanted thinner wings.

[grigorib]

Hi Guys,

I’m in the market for a new foil, and I’m considering the Moses 633 or Armstrong 1200.

If any of you out there have kited with both, would you mind sharing your thoughts on the two?

I’m coming from a slingshot fKite setup, which includes 71 cm mast and space spaceskate (formerly h4) front wing. I ride an alien air 4’ 8” board strapless. I weight about 180 pounds.

This is my first year. I mostly ride an inland lake near my house (1 mile x 0.5 mile) and ride in 10 to 20 mph (maybe more?) winds. I fly cabrinha drifters (7 and 9m) as well as a 12m wainman.

I also kitesurf waves with a surfboard and switch from my surfboard to a hydrofoil when the wind gets light.

I’m not a speed demon - going too fast on a foil freaks me out!

I’m also considering getting a longer mast to avoid breaching the backside of waves and swell. Maybe an 85cm.

I’m sure it all comes down to personal preference; nonetheless, I thought I’d post this in case anyone has the time and interest to comment on their experiences between to two foils.

Cheers,
wolfieee

At your 180 lbs I'd recommend 683s wing, 710 fuselage, 450 stabilizer and 91cm carbon mast. 683s feels a tad quicker than 633 (20% thinner and 20% smaller area) but it can go in about as light wind as 633.
683s also doesn't make foil to float on the side which is a bonus

The aluminum Moses would save you about $500 and it comes with 633 wing, 483 stabilizer and 75cm mast. Due to aluminum mast it won't float on the side either, but again - 633 might feel too much of lift for 180 lbs

win-win

[Bletti]

Armstrong is coming out with a hs1050 (high speed) front and smaller hs rear wing in the next month which I'm interested in getting for kiting. They make a 85cm and 95cm mast though the 95cm mast at this point is a bit heavier plate and mast construction. I'm told a lighter 95cm mast is in development. I think 85cm should be long enough to kite with especially if you are trying to ride with the wings close to the surface to have wave power.

[alowishus]

Without a doubt, go with the 633. Don’t even consider the 683 as it isn’t any easier and only a tad faster than the 633. A foil that causes the board to float partially on its side is a definite bonus when learning/intermediate as it won’t race away from you if/when you come off.

I like how my foil turns around and comes downwind to me after a crash. For some reason I rarely end up upwind of my foil... For sure I don’t miss bodydragging upwind like I used to have to when learning on the TT.
I think the 683S is mint - haven’t tried the 633 yet...

[Sfollis]

I own and have tried back to back the 633, 683, 790 and most resent the 720 in all sorts of wind ranges and can conclude the 633 is a much better single foil to own. The 683 lacks the ultra low end while it is only 1-2 knots quicker at the best. The 790 is great for very light winds, heavier riders but top end is <4knots less than the 633. If you want a second foil that is different to the 633, then the 720 is the one (faster than the 683 and more stable). More info on the 720 under this link:

viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2403894&p=1070468 ... 0#p1070468

[wolfieee]

Thanks for all the great points you guys shared in this thread. I had no idea about the sharp edges on the Moses and that those can be sanded. I also had never thought about the pros and cons of a floating foil.

Sounds like guys love their Moses foils and not as many have tried the Armstrong.

The Armstrong build quality looks impressive to me and I’ve read that they won’t be changing their design anytime soon, which means easy plug-n-play with new wings in the future. On the contrary, I’ve heard Moses has made two changes so far, which have broken wing compatibility.

One interesting thing is FoilMount makes an adapter to mount the Moses to the slingshot mast. So one option would be to buy this adapter for my slingshot 71cm mast. Then I would buy the Moses 633 / 483 and the Moses 91cm mast to have two mast options.

All that said, I’m still quite curious about the Armstrong so I’ll continue researching. If I did that I’d probably go with the 85 cm. I’ve been pretty good with my 71, but at times I’ve thought a little more mast might help me in the big swell (from popping through the back).

Oh and I’ve heard the Armie does really great in white water.

They’re both great, I’m sure!

Again, thanks for all the posts. I’ve enjoyed reading this.

[Kitemanmuc]

Hi Guys,

I’m in the market for a new foil, and I’m considering the Moses 633 or Armstrong 1200.

If any of you out there have kited with both, would you mind sharing your thoughts on the two?

I’m coming from a slingshot fKite setup, which includes 71 cm mast and space spaceskate (formerly h4) front wing. I ride an alien air 4’ 8” board strapless. I weight about 180 pounds.

This is my first year. I mostly ride an inland lake near my house (1 mile x 0.5 mile) and ride in 10 to 20 mph (maybe more?) winds. I fly cabrinha drifters (7 and 9m) as well as a 12m wainman.

I also kitesurf waves with a surfboard and switch from my surfboard to a hydrofoil when the wind gets light.

I’m not a speed demon - going too fast on a foil freaks me out!

I’m also considering getting a longer mast to avoid breaching the backside of waves and swell. Maybe an 85cm.

I’m sure it all comes down to personal preference; nonetheless, I thought I’d post this in case anyone has the time and interest to comment on their experiences between to two foils.

Cheers,
wolfieee

I have em both. It’s really simple. If you want to surf foil, with a kite or without, ride waves in any capacity....Armstrong. If you don’t like going fast, Armstrong. No doubt. The 633 is faster, better for kitefoiling. But if you want to cruise slower and ride waves. Armstrong hands down without a doubt.

[hudstur]

Need to hear more on the Armstrong foils please. Trying to research the Armstrong, not much out there. Sold my Moses, is too damage prone. Thinking of going with Armstrong 800/1200, 85 cm mast, 3’11” board.