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Wingfoil mast lenght

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Wingfoil mast lenght

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:24 pm

What about just keeping the current gear?

As with most things, it takes time getting used to for max utilisation is my guess, no matter how easy when starting , so in time I would think you can go a lot lower (without knowing).

8) Peter

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Re: Wingfoil mast lenght

Postby slingshotucf » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:31 pm

Instead of the shorter mast, a shorter fuselage will make it pump easier onto foil. I put the foil forward in the track and then have found the shorter fuselage helped me get up way quicker.Went from the Axis 102 tot he 100 and now it's all I use for sup foil and wing'ing. Just don't forget to move the foil back in the track if you're going to sup foil.

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Re: Wingfoil mast lenght

Postby Slyde » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:26 pm

Just ride what you have for now and don’t worry too much about pumping. Once there is enough wind you don’t really need to pump. It will all come together v soon. You won’t use the 65cm mast more than a couple of times. Save your money for a funky high aspect wing when you are better. I’m betting you already have a perfect beginner setup.
Btw I started on 70 cm Naish and now have 75cm Axis. Next mast purchase will be 90cm for downwinding in choppy swell but I’m not rushing to that purchase yet.

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Re: Wingfoil mast lenght

Postby bigtone667 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:41 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:31 am
bigtone667 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:21 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:40 pm



Amazed you can wingfoil in less wind than most kitefoils, I don't really understand that, even with the bigger wing.

8) PF

I definitely kitefoil in 7/8 knots without any issues. Got no chance of doing that on a wing. But these riding these wings is so much fun. :D

Now I dont understand anything in this wingfoil thread...

I assume you write you can wingfoil from about 6 or 7 knots right?

That what I found amazing, almost not to believe :roll:

But now you write about kitefoiling in 7-8 knots (which is easy yes)

8) PF
Sorry Peter, my fault for the confusion....... I am just stating that my AXIS 102 has lift from about 6 or 7 knots with my weight. The problem with Winging, is you need about 15 knots (unless your Gunnar) to unstick the plank you are riding. Once I can unstick the board, I only need enough wind to help me maintain about 8 or 9 knots speed (probably 11/12 knots of wind speed).

Unfortunately the Wings are not as efficient as a Kite yet, but give it time. Pretty sure that will change.

If I am riding comfortably powered on an 8m Cloud, I can usually get up on a 5m duotone wing using the same AXIS 102 foil.

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Re: Wingfoil mast lenght

Postby bigtone667 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:45 pm

juandesooka wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:31 am
My gong 5m needs 15kt minimum. The 7m is reported to work down to 10kt.

I started on 24 inch mast and moved to 30 inch to help with breaches.
Interesting .... I started on 90cm and went down to 75cm (which is my preferred kiting size) and I am now using a either a 75 or 65cm for Wing foiling.

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Re: Wingfoil mast lenght

Postby gregkn73 » Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:59 am

gmb13 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:10 am


Now to another thing that not very many people understand. Surface Area is not a good indication of the actual lifting potential of a front wing. Actually it is almost useless. For example the Moses 873 has almost the same area as the AXIS 1020, but as the profile is thinner and the profile taper is much thinner towards the tips, the 873 needs more speed/power to fly. Volume and Span are way more important in my experience. So when you talk about your foil, please tell us which foil you are actually using.

Also not all Wings are the same. There is a huge difference in low end between the different brands. Would be helpful to know which Wing you are on.

Thanks,

--
Gunnar
Hi,
Because I am also at a search of wing and foil, with main interest low end, preferably 12kn or less.

Can you clarify about front Wings. ...bigger span and thinner profile , provide earlier lift? Unfortunately few brands give info about wing volume, so not easy to understand thickness of the profile. Moses above give info only of span and surface area.

Also which wing has got lower low end, and what characteristics of the wing, except the obvious surface area, determine their lower end?

Thanks in advance

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Re: Wingfoil mast lenght

Postby gmb13 » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:30 pm

gregkn73 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:59 am
gmb13 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:10 am


Now to another thing that not very many people understand. Surface Area is not a good indication of the actual lifting potential of a front wing. Actually it is almost useless. For example the Moses 873 has almost the same area as the AXIS 1020, but as the profile is thinner and the profile taper is much thinner towards the tips, the 873 needs more speed/power to fly. Volume and Span are way more important in my experience. So when you talk about your foil, please tell us which foil you are actually using.

Also not all Wings are the same. There is a huge difference in low end between the different brands. Would be helpful to know which Wing you are on.

Thanks,

--
Gunnar
Hi,
Because I am also at a search of wing and foil, with main interest low end, preferably 12kn or less.

Can you clarify about front Wings. ...bigger span and thinner profile , provide earlier lift? Unfortunately few brands give info about wing volume, so not easy to understand thickness of the profile. Moses above give info only of span and surface area.

Also which wing has got lower low end, and what characteristics of the wing, except the obvious surface area, determine their lower end?

Thanks in advance
Hi Greg,

Regarding the Foil:
The thicker the profile (typically) the less speed it will need to lift you and it will be easier to pump. Also the larger the span (higher AR) the more it will glide once you are up and flying.

Regarding the Wing:

There are many factors . Besides surface area, the profile type and depth, overall rigidity of the wing and features like the Y handles will have a great effect on low end.

The deeper the profile, the more the wing will pull, however if the profile is too deep, you get overpowered really quickly and also Upwind angle suffers. Also certain profiles are have more sheeting range. The Ozone and Fone can be sheeted in very far and will generate power progressively, whereas the Naish and Duotone are more linear and shut off/Backstall early which obviously has an effect on the low-end. The rigidity is also a major factor. If the wing is too flexible you loose a lot of power, especially in the lowend when you need to pump the wing hard.

Another thing that cannot be overlooked is how the Wing will handle in light winds, especially the big ones. If the weight of the wing is to high they are a bastard to handle when the wind drops. Case in point is the Slingwing. It is great when its blowing, but in light winds the weight of the wing makes it very difficult to handle as the wing wants to drop all the time, and your arms get tired very quickly.

The Y Handles on the Ozone and Slingshot make it a lot easier on the low-end to pump up onto the foil. I do not understand why none of the other brands have them. Every-time I try another wing without them I really miss them.

And now for the factor that most people always forget. The board itself makes a massive difference in light winds. Some boards make it super hard to get up on the foil as they stick to the water or the scoop rocker lines is not good for pumping and hangs up all the time on small chop. I have tested a bunch of different boards from different brands and have come to the conclusion that a large number for Supfoil Boards from larger Brands make wingfoiling difficult. If you are having problems pumping up with a large foil maybe try a different board once in while, it might surprise you how much more easy it can be with the right board.



--
Gunnar
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Re: Wingfoil mast lenght

Postby gregkn73 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:28 am

gmb13 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:30 pm
gregkn73 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:59 am
gmb13 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:10 am


Now to another thing that not very many people understand. Surface Area is not a good indication of the actual lifting potential of a front wing. Actually it is almost useless. For example the Moses 873 has almost the same area as the AXIS 1020, but as the profile is thinner and the profile taper is much thinner towards the tips, the 873 needs more speed/power to fly. Volume and Span are way more important in my experience. So when you talk about your foil, please tell us which foil you are actually using.

Also not all Wings are the same. There is a huge difference in low end between the different brands. Would be helpful to know which Wing you are on.

Thanks,

--
Gunnar
Hi,
Because I am also at a search of wing and foil, with main interest low end, preferably 12kn or less.

Can you clarify about front Wings. ...bigger span and thinner profile , provide earlier lift? Unfortunately few brands give info about wing volume, so not easy to understand thickness of the profile. Moses above give info only of span and surface area.

Also which wing has got lower low end, and what characteristics of the wing, except the obvious surface area, determine their lower end?

Thanks in advance
Hi Greg,

Regarding the Foil:
The thicker the profile (typically) the less speed it will need to lift you and it will be easier to pump. Also the larger the span (higher AR) the more it will glide once you are up and flying.

Regarding the Wing:

There are many factors . Besides surface area, the profile type and depth, overall rigidity of the wing and features like the Y handles will have a great effect on low end.

The deeper the profile, the more the wing will pull, however if the profile is too deep, you get overpowered really quickly and also Upwind angle suffers. Also certain profiles are have more sheeting range. The Ozone and Fone can be sheeted in very far and will generate power progressively, whereas the Naish and Duotone are more linear and shut off/Backstall early which obviously has an effect on the low-end. The rigidity is also a major factor. If the wing is too flexible you loose a lot of power, especially in the lowend when you need to pump the wing hard.

Another thing that cannot be overlooked is how the Wing will handle in light winds, especially the big ones. If the weight of the wing is to high they are a bastard to handle when the wind drops. Case in point is the Slingwing. It is great when its blowing, but in light winds the weight of the wing makes it very difficult to handle as the wing wants to drop all the time, and your arms get tired very quickly.

The Y Handles on the Ozone and Slingshot make it a lot easier on the low-end to pump up onto the foil. I do not understand why none of the other brands have them. Every-time I try another wing without them I really miss them.

And now for the factor that most people always forget. The board itself makes a massive difference in light winds. Some boards make it super hard to get up on the foil as they stick to the water or the scoop rocker lines is not good for pumping and hangs up all the time on small chop. I have tested a bunch of different boards from different brands and have come to the conclusion that a large number for Supfoil Boards from larger Brands make wingfoiling difficult. If you are having problems pumping up with a large foil maybe try a different board once in while, it might surprise you how much more easy it can be with the right board.



--
Gunnar
Hi Gunar,

Thanks for your quick answer.

So as I can understand, higher aspect foils but also with higher volume for a thicker profile is the best combination? The added weight from higher volume doesn't have a negative effect, at the low end?

As far boards, since few are specific for winging, what special characteristics should they have , for an easier lift on the foil?

Thanks again


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