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Roll tack underpowered small kites?

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Peter_Frank
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Roll tack underpowered small kites?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:09 pm

Hi all

Reading here it seems most of you can make fluid foiling (roll)tacks.

I can not, when riding with small kites and powered on the verge to "just" being able to loop and pump up onto foiling, and even worse when using 5 or 6 m2 kites :roll:

The bigger wings gives more time till you "drop" yes, but the lower speed is actually not always an advantage, meaning with a medium wing with more speed and glide, I find it often works just as good as with the big ones.

But still, on both, if I (78 kg) am out with say a 7 m2 kite in 12-13 knots, I find it impossible, and I can do the tack but always end up board on the surface on the new tack, and have to loop a lot now, and work my way up onto foiling again.

All of you who do these all the time, is it just a matter of practice and getting better, or do you have the same issue when low powered with small kites?

I do a small pop with my rear foot, to get more space and time before touchdown, but I can not keep it foiling, and if looping the kite around it is still too late to avoid a touchdown (for me).

What is your experiences regarding small kites and being really low powered?
It works so perfect for carving fun and waveriding, but for me at least, with my level, it has its limits when trying to tack foiling :roll:

If out with big kites say 10 or 12 m2 LEI, you get so much "float" and everything is a lot easier indeed :thumb:

Or if overpowered, well at least powered more than fun for wave/carving, with the small kites it gets a lot easier.

Just not in the sweetspot for waveriding/carving fun.

But maybe it IS just a matter of skill.

Any thoughts?

8) Peter

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Re: Roll tack underpowered small kites?

Postby lebast » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:11 pm

Ahoi Peter,

I was struggling with this, last year a lot. For me the solution was using 1-2m² in kitesize bigger than I used to. I also have the feeling that the low limit for flying roll tacks is higher (more wind needed) compared to tacks without foot switch and gybes. But the surface of the water and if it is moving or not, makes a difference in having enough glide through the manouver and using the apperent wind speed as lift in your kite (it always does, but with minimal kite power in the smaller sizes it is even more).

In general but you Peter will know that but for others: try not to make the upwind carve around to big but try a sharp and hard carve (bank) upwind and try to use that speed to turn it around quickly, rise the foil up as high as possible and pull the bar a little bit earlier (than with more kite power) and already steer into the agressive dive and loop (once you pull).

Nice slowmos of above mentiones rolltack style, but sometimes also with bigger kites:
https://gleiten.tv/index.php/video/acti ... /page/475/ (@ 20sec, and more tacks later)

Even for wave and carving I like more power now. If done correctly you can get a bit of slack/loos-ish lines when you do your bottom turn which will give you enough "room" for a nice top turn, without pull from the kite. last year I wasn't able to do that and there for I always felt I needed less kite power to not get pulled away from the wave/chopp, with above technique a little powered feels better for me even in this regards, since more m² gets more pushed by the wind ("drift") --> even bigger carves are possible, since less holding back because of super slack lines.

so yes, better and different technique might help a bit, but there is this lower limit for flying roll tacks with small tubes and medium lenght mast (~90cm) also in my experience.

lebast

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Re: Roll tack underpowered small kites?

Postby junebug » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:51 pm

I ride pretty underpowered (7m at 13kn/5m at 15kn/4m at 17kn) at 195 lbs with a Lift 150. I can do roll tacks with a very aggressive move of the kite from 11 to 1 (or 1 to 11) followed quickly by a fast downloop. The amount of time when you have lift from the kite to help with the footswitch is very short, but it is just a matter of getting the timing down. I actually have more trouble doing roll tacks now when the wind picks up out of the low end of the range because the timing is so different and you don’t need a loop to make it work.

I also do my footswitch early in the maneuver and I do it very quickly. For me, an early footswitch helps me drive the board through the upwind carve without the little pause you see a lot of people do when they switch feet later in the maneuver. I don’t even really pressure the back of the board before switching feet. There really isn’t a pause when I switch feet, so I don’t have to apply pressure to keep on foil. This helps keep the board off the water.

Based on what you are saying, it seems to me you might just need to sling the kite around a little faster, both in terms of kite speed and in relation to the footswitch.
Last edited by junebug on Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:10 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Roll tack underpowered small kites?

Postby junebug » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:59 pm

I can’t link to it, but check out the BRM video on Facebook from 10/31/18 showing the early footswitch.

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Re: Roll tack underpowered small kites?

Postby cglazier » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:35 pm

I have exactly the same experience as you Peter. On a good wind day my roll tacks work well with my 12m foil kite (Soul). But I have difficulty doing them either in very light wind or when I use my 7m or 5m kites.
A big well powered kite just holds me up longer during the tack.
I'll try the tips above..

;-)
CG

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Re: Roll tack underpowered small kites?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:29 pm

junebug wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:59 pm
I can’t link to it, but check out the BRM video on Facebook from 10/31/18 showing the early footswitch.

I can see that :D

But it wont be possible for me, to go toeside first like in the vid, and then tack - my body can not do things like that ha haa - I know my limitations, besides I dont like to (aim for being able to) switch feet first, neither when jibing :naughty:

Think you could be right though, it is the only way to do it foiling when underpowered, bugger...

Videoclip from 31/10-2018 is here:


No matter HOW easy some can get it to look, it is most often not :rollgrin:

8) Peter

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Re: Roll tack underpowered small kites?

Postby junebug » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:03 pm

I don’t think the early foot switch is necessary. On my port tacks, the early foot switch came naturally (I doubt I could do it any other way) but on starboard tacks, it was more natural with the foot switch later. Even when I do them with a later footswitch on starboard, I can stay foiling at the low end of the range with very fast kite flying, a quick footswitch, and an early downloop. I think if you experiment with this you will get the timing even with a middle or late foot switch. The key is to get power from the loop before you lose momentum from the upwind carve.
Last edited by junebug on Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roll tack underpowered small kites?

Postby cglazier » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:25 pm

Ok thanks for the tips junebug.
I certainly need to downloop after my tack in very light wind. But I feel like it's cheating. The tack should provide upwind progress, and a downloop pulls you a bit downwind.. so I try not to use it.
But I seem to need stronger wind to tack without the downloop. (maybe my preference to not downloop is just because of my racing experience).

;-) CG

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Re: Roll tack underpowered small kites?

Postby Kitetwin-1 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:05 pm

I’ve been waiting for this thread for a while, keep it going boys....

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Re: Roll tack underpowered small kites?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:47 pm

With smaller kites you need to generate enough pull after the tack, and that normally is only possible with a downloop. Thats said, its much easier to learn them well powered and with a "freeride" foil.


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