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Warp Drive for the S683

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Warp Drive for the S683

Postby NYKiter » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:22 pm

Went from the 483 stab to the 325 stab on the S683....its like hitting the NOS switch.... :alarm:

Tried it on the 633 but it was like a bouncing balloon ride...

The loss of roll stability is significant on the S683...not so much on the 633....considering the 330 or 420 instead....

Any advice from those who have done either for the S683?

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby NYKiter » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:36 pm

330

J...u...s...t....right....

lightning fast, low take off speed, no pushing on your front foot ....

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby grigorib » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:51 pm

I tried 330 and 325 with 633 and 720 and I didn’t like it at all. And I know some people do like it. Foil flew faster but became overly pitch sensitive. I think a larger stabilizer like 420 or 425 would be a better choice.

Small stabilizer demand higher takeoff speed and I could feel it right away

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby PurdyKiter » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:14 pm

Going to try the 450 in a couple days. I have the 483, tried the 325 and that was kinda weird unstable.

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby grigorib » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:32 am

PurdyKiter wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:14 pm
Going to try the 450 in a couple days. I have the 483, tried the 325 and that was kinda weird unstable.
450 will result in more front foot pressure. Overall the 483 is a better flying stabilizer but it’s is prone to damage compared to 450

Same on my end - the small stabilizer felt “weird unstable”
Last edited by grigorib on Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:51 am

grigorib wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:51 pm
Snip...

Small stabilizer demand higher takeoff speed and I could feel it right away

No, this is wrong.

Eventhough not in doubt that is what you feel :wink:

The smaller the stab the more overall lift you got (the stab pulls down), and less drag.

Thus you can take off and ride at a lower speed, with a smaller stab.

For the same reason a stabless can take off and ride at even less speed, and you have to move a bit aft because the stab does not pull down as much or at all.

The reason you can feel higher takeoff speed, is because you havent gotten used to the different size stab, but your body rides like it did before.

Actually, it is "human error" that determines takeoff speed quite a lot, apart from "true" takeoff speed.

We all know that from when learning I assume - where we found out, when we got used to foiling, that we could ride at really low speed now, simply because our body was making small corrections all the time at first, thus wasting a lot of lift.
Whereas when we did learn and was used to it, we could ride more and more smooth without changing pitch indeliberately, thus ride at a LOT lower speed.

So what you experience is probable true when trying a smaller stab (or without a stab), but only because you havent gotten used to it IMO and experience :naughty:

I personally believe there will be a limit for the individual, where the body can not compensate for the lack of pitch stability nomore, yes, apart from how we "like" the feel, thus we could end up on different sizes, some with small stabs, others with big stabs. and a few even stabless.
Meaning, for the individual to obtain the lowest takeoff speed, different stabs for different riders (maybe, or just a matter of time).

Dont forget the muscle memory has to get used to it, I think that is why many get spooked if they try a smaller stab - wait a bit longer till you know whether it is for you or not, is my advice :thumb:

My advice if going with a smaller stab would be to feel if you like or dislike the lively way you can turn tight now.
If you dont, forget the smaller stab.
If you do, keep riding it for some time and see, as my experience is pitch stability will miraculously get natural quite fast.

8) Peter
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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby slowboat » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:18 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:51 am
grigorib wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:51 pm
Snip...

Small stabilizer demand higher takeoff speed and I could feel it right away



The smaller the stab the more overall lift you got (the stab pulls down), and less drag.



OK, I may have this all wrong but I always understood that since the stab pushes down from the BACK of the fuse, it actually pushes the front wing UP and creates more lift. So a bigger stab will push down more and create MORE lift (of the front wing). That is not correct?

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby AndersP » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:40 am

During take off and really slow riding the stab is lifting because of increased positive angle of attack. When you pick up speed the stab changes to pulling down.

Id you don't believe it. Compare your boards angle to the water when riding slow and riding fast. It's much more difference than the down angle of the stab.

Grigorib is right.
I big stab can help to take of earlier.

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:16 am

slowboat wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:18 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:51 am
grigorib wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:51 pm
Snip...

Small stabilizer demand higher takeoff speed and I could feel it right away



The smaller the stab the more overall lift you got (the stab pulls down), and less drag.



OK, I may have this all wrong but I always understood that since the stab pushes down from the BACK of the fuse, it actually pushes the front wing UP and creates more lift. So a bigger stab will push down more and create MORE lift (of the front wing). That is not correct?

No, you can not create more lift this way, so that is not correct.

8) Peter

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:24 am

AndersP wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:40 am
During take off and really slow riding the stab is lifting because of increased positive angle of attack. When you pick up speed the stab changes to pulling down.

Id you don't believe it. Compare your boards angle to the water when riding slow and riding fast. It's much more difference than the down angle of the stab.

Grigorib is right.
I big stab can help to take of earlier.

Then the main wing would stall...

You go slower before takeoff, and with higher aoa than possible, if both wings lift.


You are right, there is a difference in aoa when we ride at different speeds yes.

But you imply the rear wing is lifting when riding "normally" also (at low speed like most do), I dont think it does.

Especially not the Moses which is notorious for having too much front foot pressure in some situations.

If the rear wing is lifting when going slow, then the bigger the rear wing, the slower you can ride.

Which I think is wrong.

Only on canards where both wings lift :thumb:

But IF the rear wing is lifting when riding normally, then I take my words back, at least regarding low end :rollgrin:

There are scenarios where the rear wing lifts indeed, in tight turns where the front wing need to be pushed "up" or rather "into the turn" to retain its aoa and lift, and the rear wing is outside the arc if that makes sense?

I dont believe this gives you more overall lift when starting to foil though, but it could when you make an arc pushing the board up (maybe).
But once up and riding, you will still have less lift with a bigger stab, thus not able to go as slow.

Quite interesting, that we might have more lift available at the moment we push the board up, and less available once up.

8) Peter


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