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Warp Drive for the S683

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AndersP
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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby AndersP » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:20 am

Check the board angle compared when you are fast and when going very slow without out hanging in the kite.
Not slow as the speed many of us go all the time 🙂

If your frontwing would stall at such small angle changes as 2-3 degrees it would be very hard to kite or fly at all.

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:52 pm

AndersP wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:20 am
Check the board angle compared when you are fast and when going very slow without out hanging in the kite.
Not slow as the speed many of us go all the time 🙂

If your frontwing would stall at such small angle changes as 2-3 degrees it would be very hard to kite or fly at all.

This is true.

Especially for the low AR wings many use today, here you can ride at quite high semistalled angles, without losing (much) lift, because of the tip vortices lowering the AOA locally.

Whereas with a really high AR wing, it gets extremely pitch sensitive as you dont get the same "dulling" effect which low AR delivers.

8) Peter

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby tomtom » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:11 pm

Thats why i also thinks that at very low speed and very high AOA these low AR setups /like onda/ can act as one delta lifting surface where all surfaces actually produces lift

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby NYKiter » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:34 pm

grigorib wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:51 pm
I tried 330 and 325 with 633 and 720 and I didn’t like it at all. And I know some people do like it. Foil flew faster but became overly pitch sensitive. I think a larger stabilizer like 420 or 425 would be a better choice.

Small stabilizer demand higher takeoff speed and I could feel it right away
Thank you, was wondering about the 720.... there is some very slight pitch instability with 330 & 683 that I noticed, and I cant crank a backside turn as there seems to be no resistance from the tail and I plop in the water - not sure whats going on, perhaps the bigger stab will push back when you crank on a turn at very low speed?

I am wondering about the 420 on the 683.....certainly the 330 winglets fixed a LOT of the roll instability of the 325....starting not to be a fan of flat wings now.....especially in garbage winds that we have.....

Drawing out the turns and getting the kite out ahead of the turn initiation is a MUST as it appears to go 2X as fast....

overall though the 330 with the 683 was rather surreal....fantastico....highly recommend it if you can try it... :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby grigorib » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:42 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:51 am
grigorib wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:51 pm
..
Small stabilizer demand higher takeoff speed and I could feel it right away
No, this is wrong.
Eventhough not in doubt that is what you feel :wink:
...
That was from my 720 (746 sq.cm) wing comparison side-by-side with 450 and 325 stabilizers. I felt that with large stabilizer I could just push on the board with both feet and get up on the first dive. Surprisingly as easy as on larger 683s (1005 sq.cm.) wing.
When I tried 325 it felt that it "falls through" on me and I needed some speed to go - the feeling was very much like feeling of riding 590.

One thing I should have done is to move mast forward for use with a small stabilizer and I think it would have helped. But I also know that smaller wing feels funny after riding a large one for a while.

I wish I could demo a 425 stabilizer. I absolutely agree that small stabilizer or stabless feels faster and less draggy - I could feel it in both cases.

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:52 pm

grigorib wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:42 pm
Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:51 am
grigorib wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:51 pm
..
Small stabilizer demand higher takeoff speed and I could feel it right away
No, this is wrong.
Eventhough not in doubt that is what you feel :wink:
...
That was from my 720 (746 sq.cm) wing comparison side-by-side with 450 and 325 stabilizers. I felt that with large stabilizer I could just push on the board with both feet and get up on the first dive. Surprisingly as easy as on larger 683s (1005 sq.cm.) wing.
When I tried 325 it felt that it "falls through" on me and I needed some speed to go - the feeling was very much like feeling of riding 590.

One thing I should have done is to move mast forward for use with a small stabilizer and I think it would have helped. But I also know that smaller wing feels funny after riding a large one for a while.

I wish I could demo a 425 stabilizer. I absolutely agree that small stabilizer or stabless feels faster and less draggy - I could feel it in both cases.

THAT makes sense indeed grigorib, that you feel you could push the foil up, using the rear stab, especially if same trim, I think this could be true (or not) because as you say yourself, which comes from the trim itself trying to lift, giving you feel of earlier takeoff, or if there really IS more lift overall for the short instant, is hard to distinguish - good point and well spotted.

I dont think it can ride at lower speed, once up though, on the contrary - that is the point and no wonder (if so) we have confusing views.

Hard to test the aoa of the rear stab at a given riding speed, anyone got an idea? :roll:

Also remember there is probably a lot of downwash from the main wing, so the flow at the rear stab is in fact coming more from above when front wing lifts like it does at slow speed, thus giving even more down pull (less overall lift = higher low end riding speed) from the stab.
I dont know exactly how this works in the water, as near the surface different things might happen regarding this...
Thinking bout it, I think the same thing happens at the surface, so your wing makes a tiny bump on the water surface above it, and a trough behind it, before levelling out far behind the whole foil.
I know very well how it works for planes and how we design after this, found a picture to illustrate.
I dont like the words, as I would have said "Increased downwash increases negative lift on the tail" or "Decreases aoa" which is the same as more negative lift, or less positive lift, but the picture shows what is meant, forget the confusing words as with negative values we tend to confuse or be confused ha haa.

Here a plane flying totally horisontal :

Image

8) Peter

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby NYKiter » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:58 am

I was out in low 30s slop wind and the 330 tends to breach its tips.....A LOT....going to reserve it for the tamer days....

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby alowishus » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:32 am

grigorib wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:32 am
PurdyKiter wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:14 pm
Going to try the 450 in a couple days. I have the 483, tried the 325 and that was kinda weird unstable.
450 will result in more front foot pressure. Overall the 483 is a better flying stabilizer while 450 is more prone to damage.

Same on my end - the small stabilizer felt “weird unstable”
Did you mean the 483 is more prone to damage?

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby joekitetime » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:53 pm

PurdyKiter wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:14 pm
Going to try the 450 in a couple days. I have the 483, tried the 325 and that was kinda weird unstable.
I found the 450 to be just perfect. I ride it on all my bigger wings (633/683/790/873)

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Re: Warp Drive for the S683

Postby NYKiter » Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:08 pm

Do the tips breach more easily than the 483 with its downward tips?? The 330 would be good if the tips went down instead.....


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