kite loop radius for gybe to toe

[junebug]

This is different from what the OP was asking, but in light wind gibes with a footswitch, I pull in on the bar for lift for the footswitch in such a way that I start the downloop at the same time. Point being, I definitely turn the kite well before I start turning the board. I don’t use the pull of the kite from the downloop, however, to get the board around. My kites have pivot turns that don’t pull. Instead, I use the glide from the previous tack and turn sharply so the kite is there waiting for me once I’ve turned back to heel side.

[Kamikuza]

A load of BS? What, You think I'm trying to intentionally disinform!

Kites pull, they don’t push, they pull us, not the other way round.

Pretty sure we have referenced following the kite in waves since we started kiting in waves. Feel free to change convention but I foil very much the same way. I crank the bar, the kite responds and I follow where it pulls me. The informed observer can always tell when Im going to jump or change tack by watching my kite. I certainly feel like all my tacks and gybes are telegraphed by kite movement. As I said. Once you know whats what you can flaunt the convention a bit, but it still stands as a simple way for those learning to better comprehend the timing.

I remember clearly those first gybes with long near slack line downwind portions. That improved when I committed with the kite to pass decisively through 12 o'clock and I just as decisively followed suit. Kite can go across the top, or down loop or do any number of loops, but it leads across from one tack to another..

Got a buddy back home who used to primarily surf, and he foils the same way he surfs -- sends the kite then hauls ass around behind it. Works for him, I do it sometimes (usually light wind) but mostly I just ride the board then deal with the party pooper (kite) as needs be...

Just got a Drifter and it's great at being left at the zenith, then nudged to either side as you change tack. Anytime is fine

[Huib]

I do both. It depends on how powerful I am. If you first turn the kite you can turn more radically.

[jumptheshark]

The OP can try the multitude of suggestions, or can simplify until they get it figured out.

Sometimes I think people just feel the need to disagree!

I also disagree with the "follow the kite" idea.......

So my advice is to send the kite before engaging the turn

and this:

I also completely disagree with the follow the kite advice. What a load of BS.

When jibing any board, the nose of the board must point slightly ahead of the kite. So, in reality, the kite is following you.

WHaT ?? The kite is following you? Seriously? Do you load and pop your edge before sending you kite in a jump?

Im not saying he can't point in a different direction than the kite, but the timing is that he send the kite across to the other tack and follow it in pretty lock step as to maintain constant line tension until both kite and board are well onto the other tack, lines still tensioned. This is not a novel approach.

Even PF saying the kite and board are synchronized but the kite is not leading is confusing. If the kite is pulling you, how exactly is the kite not leading? Input to the kite precedes input to the board for basic transitions. Again, were not getting into the myriad of possibilities on foil. Of course I have pulled my kite out of a slack line tumble, but 99% of the time the kite is pulling me, so maybe we can try to keepthe explanations simple.

I also get that super low wind is a different kettle of fish with it's own nuances, let just keep basic explanations to properly powered foiling. OP can sort out the dark arts once the basics are figured out.

[TomW]

I usually sent the kite back first and follow the kite. Keep it pretty low. I'm using Hyperlinks.
I read this thread and yesterday tried going into gybe first then sending the kite. It was 20+ knots and I was on Hyperlink 7m on 15m lines.
It is different, but kite catches up and you get more power in the turn as you come around more before kite slacks some. For me it's just a small timing change.

[gmb13]

WHaT ?? The kite is following you? Seriously? Do you load and pop your edge before sending you kite in a jump?

Im not saying he can't point in a different direction than the kite, but the timing is that he send the kite across to the other tack and follow it in pretty lock step as to maintain constant line tension until both kite and board are well onto the other tack, lines still tensioned. This is not a novel approach.

Even PF saying the kite and board are synchronized but the kite is not leading is confusing. If the kite is pulling you, how exactly is the kite not leading? Input to the kite precedes input to the board for basic transitions. Again, were not getting into the myriad of possibilities on foil. Of course I have pulled my kite out of a slack line tumble, but 99% of the time the kite is pulling me, so maybe we can try to keepthe explanations simple.

I also get that super low wind is a different kettle of fish with it's own nuances, let just keep basic explanations to properly powered foiling. OP can sort out the dark arts once the basics are figured out.

Nope. He is right. Turning the board before you sending the kite is the correct way of flying the kite when you turn on flat water. This keeps tension on the lines . If you send the kite before you initiate turning the board, the lines go slack and the kite stalls, especially in lighter winds or with small kites.

--
Gunnar

[jumptheshark]

Alright then, hard to argue with consensus!

I guess there are a lot of ways to skin a cat.

I guess maybe I'm foiling in more wind than we are discussing. I certainly learned all my transitions by clueing into the timing of the kite and board with the kite generally leading the way. I also made major headway when I learned to be decisive with my kite and carve in order to pass being in "irons" quickly. (sailing term, Sorry Longwhitecloud!).

[cglazier]

With skill you can turn your kite before, during, or after you turn your board.

But the safest ways is to turn the kite (start the downloop) first to keep tension in the kite lines. If you turn your board first (toward the kite) you will ride straight at it and may lose any ability to control it. This often results in your kite falling into the water. I recommend that you don't turn your board until the kite has begun to move in the new direction so that you maintain tension in the lines.

In very strong winds you may send the kite over the top instead of downlooping for survival reasons.

CG

[gmb13]

But the safest ways is to turn the kite (start the downloop) first to keep tension in the kite lines. If you turn your board first (toward the kite) you will ride straight at it and may lose any ability to control it. This often results in your kite falling into the water. I recommend that you don't turn your board until the kite has begun to move in the new direction so that you maintain tension in the lines.


CG

I am sorry, but your advice is wrong. It is definitely not safer to turn your kite first in a foiling gybe and someone will end up getting hurt by following this advice. The kite will fall in the water if you turn the kite first and you are not experience enough to force the board around after it. I spend a lot of educating the "turn the kite first" myth out of my gybe students. Most have been struggling a long time, because they turn the kite first and end up with slack lines. It is also why I get asked the "how can you gybe with 12m lines on a 21m kite" a lot. Sure if you have bad technique and turn your kite first, on short lines your big kite will always land in the water. Also trying to gybe a full speed, if you send your kite too early you will get shot off your board .

On a foil, you can almost completely leave the kite flying in the opposite direction for a few seconds if you turn the board first.

--
Gunnar

[purdyd]

f you send the kite before you initiate turning the board, the lines go slack and the kite stalls, especially in lighter winds or with small kites.

This seems completely backwards to me. In light winds with a small kite I have to start the kite turning well before the board turns.

I’m talking about a small inflatable kite. Say 6m on 22m lines in 12 mph average wind speed.

Do you have any videos of what you are saying? Maybe I will learn something but maybe we aren’t comparing the same thing?

Are you talking about racing? You mentioned a 21m kite on short lines.

I found a nice video you made on Vimeo. Looks like a down loop gybe at 1:20

. https://vimeo.com/160464796

That looks pretty normal to me but for some reason you cut the complete turn. You also have a lot of speed and make a pretty wide turn because of it. So you can start the downloop as you turn the board which is what it looks like to me in that video.