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kite loop radius for gybe to toe

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purdyd
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Re: kite loop radius for gybe to toe

Postby purdyd » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:20 am

The timing of when you turn the boards in relation to the kite and how close you follow is very dependent on the speed of the kite.

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Re: kite loop radius for gybe to toe

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:13 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:37 pm
Well, I disagree with the "follow the kite" that others advice...
A lot in fact :wink:

This works well (for some, not in waves always) on "traction" boards, meaning TTs and Waveboards that gets dragged on the surface and has loads of friction, thus requires a lot bigger kite or more wind relative to the boardspeed, and dont go downwind much in the turn.

With a hydrofoil, you have to turn coordinated with the kite, NOT follow the kite.
Depends on conditions. Matters more in light wind, or how much power you want. Can’t remember if wind conditions was the OPs question...

But really: whatever works, works.

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Re: kite loop radius for gybe to toe

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:58 am

0:20 to 0:30. Turn the kite up, then initiate down loop and gybe while it loops.


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Re: kite loop radius for gybe to toe

Postby junebug » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:29 pm

The thing I struggled with as a beginner, and the thing I see many beginners struggle with, is making the heel to toe turn with too much arc and, consequently, too far downwind. I would suggest working on going into the turn with good speed, kite high, downloop, and really focus on getting the board around on the toeside tack as soon as possible. The quicker you get the board around the quicker you will tighten the lines, and, once you get it fast, allow you to use the downloop however you want to, if at all.

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Re: kite loop radius for gybe to toe

Postby jumptheshark » Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:13 pm

Commit with the kite and follow it.

Kites pull, so they lead. You can outrun the boat for a moment here and there, but you only have so much glide time.



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Re: kite loop radius for gybe to toe

Postby windmaker » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:11 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:37 pm
chibern wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:29 pm
As a beginner foiler, I'm always having to remind myself "turn the kite first" and "follow the kite".

Heel-to-toe, down loops seem easier to complete without worrying about dropping the kite than "up and overs" but I have issues once I'm through the turn. I'm always getting pulled downwind for a ways before being able to turn back up wind. I don't have this issue when gybing with an "up and over" kite movement but I have to concentrate more on kite positioning.

I tend to loop it high and tight.

Going toe-to-heel gybe, the down loop is easier regarding kite movement but more awkward to initiate. Doing a toe-to-heel using "Up and over", I always seem to have to do a mid-turn kite dive to keep from dropping the kite especially on my weak side.

Well, I disagree with the "follow the kite" that others advice...
A lot in fact :wink:

Peter
I also completely disagree with the follow the kite advice. What a load of BS.

When jibing any board, the nose of the board must point slightly ahead of the kite. So, in reality, the kite is following you. Too far back, you get yanked, kite ahead (board following the kite) = loss of power on exit.
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Re: kite loop radius for gybe to toe

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:14 pm

Correct windmaker :thumb:

We go "In sync" with our kite :naughty:

When riding waves on a surfboard, we dont follow the kite either, but put it at the "right spot" when doing the bottom turn, which is not following the kite, nor too deep, but spot on precisely at the right spot in between :D

Carving and curving and turning is what it is all about (for me), carving is life 8)

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Re: kite loop radius for gybe to toe

Postby jumptheshark » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:45 pm

A load of BS? What, You think I'm trying to intentionally disinform!

Kites pull, they don’t push, they pull us, not the other way round.

Pretty sure we have referenced following the kite in waves since we started kiting in waves. Feel free to change convention but I foil very much the same way. I crank the bar, the kite responds and I follow where it pulls me. The informed observer can always tell when Im going to jump or change tack by watching my kite. I certainly feel like all my tacks and gybes are telegraphed by kite movement. As I said. Once you know whats what you can flaunt the convention a bit, but it still stands as a simple way for those learning to better comprehend the timing.

I remember clearly those first gybes with long near slack line downwind portions. That improved when I committed with the kite to pass decisively through 12 o'clock and I just as decisively followed suit. Kite can go across the top, or down loop or do any number of loops, but it leads across from one tack to another..

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Re: kite loop radius for gybe to toe

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:12 pm

jumptheshark, we might talk about the exact same motion, just with different words.

Or, our turns might be different...

But when I ride waves, I dont turn the kite first, and then the board - it is in one synchronised movement, especially when going DTL where the kite must not pull to much in front of you (NEVER full toeside, then something is wrong), but quite deep so you can turn as freely as you want, and turning the kite back in the cutback is a lot faster now too, you can almost let it drift sometimes.

The same thing with hydrofoils, if you turn the kite too early, before turning the hydrofoil around, it will go all wrong.
In particular if you are new, and turn in too wide an arc, you end up with sloppy lines and a kite that drops in the water on the new tack :roll:

Also when going deep and fast downwind and downlooping, you have to turn the hydrofoil BEFORE the kite, to keep line tension - so here you do it almost reverse on purpose.

In really light wind, flying the kite up and around, it is even more important to avoid getting the kite "over" too early, as pull and line tension might be lost, which is a catastrophe in marginal winds, or when extremely low powered, as many are on surf foil wings now, with the small kites used.

I still see the carve as a synchronised skill, for the perfect turn, in most or all conditions.

And maybe you talk about the very same turning move, just with different words.

OR, maybe you prefer to turn the kite around first, and truly follow with the board after the kite has changed direction quite a lot?

Quite interesting if we do it very differently, or just describe the same thing with different words :D

8) Peter

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Re: kite loop radius for gybe to toe

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:38 pm

To the OP Neil, yes it is all about timing and will come in time.

You have to learn to make the carve tight, that might be your main problem as the downloop pulls you out of the tight carve arc very easy.
A lot easier with the uploop, to make a tight carve, where the main problem is to learn to fly the kite and turn the hydrofoil at the same time, so one or the other goes wrong - but you are way past that point of course.

But the timing in either, well, doing a tight loop or a longer loop and the timing, can be done in so many ways, even in the very same conditions, but mostly you change for your precise situation.

I honestly dont think you can learn it by "thinking" about what you should change.

Think doing it over and over again, is the key, and it will come by itself, so you can tackle it in different conditions.

Almost like when learning to hydrofoil for the very first time - not something you can "think", but your body will learn and suddenly it clicks more and more, without you knowing why :rollgrin:

8) Peter


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