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should water stick to the wing?

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deniska
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should water stick to the wing?

Postby deniska » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:13 am

I put a coat lacquer spray on one of my carbon wings to deal with small scratches.
It looks super fresh and glossy and feels very smooth and polished on touch.. but it repels water, like Teflon.
I did not have a chance to try it on the water just yet.. so
Will this cause ventilation at higher speeds? Do I need to sand it with 2000-3000grit paper?

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Re: should water stick to the wing?

Postby Foil » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:09 am

deniska wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:13 am
I put a coat lacquer spray on one of my carbon wings to deal with small scratches.
It looks super fresh and glossy and feels very smooth and polished on touch.. but it repels water, like Teflon.
I did not have a chance to try it on the water just yet.. so
Will this cause ventilation at higher speeds? Do I need to sand it with 2000-3000grit paper?
I went down this route, looks lovely.

But I changed after trialing the top speed, stability and feel, all of which compared quite badly in a back to back trial against my other same model wing, which had been fine sanded and water sheen tested, and which sailed so smooth and fast through the water.

Also the lacquer is likely to start peeling after it gets scratched and the glossy finish change to a crappy looking opaque dull finish as moisture gets under its surface.
so its not that great after all,

Removing the lacquer before fine sanding has to be done first, and this took some time and effort, in my case I decided to strip all the paint layers off down to the carbon, and start over again, this then produced a great very fine sightly gloss matt finish to which a full water sheen stuck to for around 3 seconds before slowly releasing, perfect! and so easy to touch up by simply using wet paper to remove sand scratches and return to the perfect finish again,
:thumb:
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Re: should water stick to the wing?

Postby revhed » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:59 am

Foil wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:09 am
water sheen tested

using wet paper to remove sand scratches
Nice info, would you mind explaining in much more detail your "water sheen test"
and
what grits of wet sand paper are you using please.
Same for wings and STRUT?
R H

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Re: should water stick to the wing?

Postby kgb » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:51 am

Does mike or Chubanga(Luca) spray the perfectly formed and finished wings with rattle can lacquer to make it look pretty?

There is your answer.

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Re: should water stick to the wing?

Postby Foil » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:57 pm

revhed wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:59 am
Foil wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:09 am
water sheen tested

using wet paper to remove sand scratches
Nice info, would you mind explaining in much more detail your "water sheen test"
and
what grits of wet sand paper are you using please.
Same for wings and STRUT?
R H
There are two ways of achieving this,

The full on, no corners cut method which delivers a ride which simply can't be bettered, shockingly smooth, allowing you to push to maximum speed.
Or the more simple but not quite as good way, still delivers a great smooth ride but I can tell the difference

The full on way-
Strip off all the original paint and transfers using 120 grit wet paper wrapped round a sponge sanding block, this takes maybe a full hour or more and I use up around 2 full sheets cut into 8 quarters,
Then using 180 grit spend 20 mins fine detail sanding
Wash well, dry well and keep the wing warm, I use a small hair dryer
Using strong light and magnifying glass inspect the carbon surface, sit down as you may be shocked at the amount of tiny pin holes you might find, 50 or 100 pin holes that need filling with glass finishing compound, this stuff drys in 10 minutes on a warm wing, is cheap and easy to apply with a old plastic store card, just ensure the pin holes are dried out first and you smear the glass finishing compound over the surface as thin as possible.

Image

When dry smooth out with 600 grit wet paper, look closely for missed pin holes and stand back to admire your spotty looking but super fine finish wing.
Next step is to add the Matt black top coat.
This is the easy part, but using the right paint is the trick here to ending up with a very tough and easy to maintain great looking finish.

Find this stuff from you local automotive paint shop, it's better than anything we have found before, and cheap which is great as well, get your grit paper from here as well,

Image

This sprays on like a dream, covers any imperfections (but not pin holes)
Drys quickly in a warm garage, 6 -10 hours later and it's ready to fine sand, leaving it overnight is maybe better but I find sanding is much easier in the less cured stage,
Start with 800 grit(or 600grit if left overnight) wet well and use even smooth strokes front edge to back edge and back, clean and dry often to inspect the finish.
When satisfied with a your very even and fine finished surface then change to 1200grit paper, lots of water needed to stop the paper snagging the surface(using the hard sponge sanding block for all the sanding down jobs is important) regularly wash and dry the surface to check for the final almost silky Matt finish all over.
Finally finish the trailing edge angle with 800 or 600 grit paper wrapped around a small wood block, as a guide 3-4 long 30deg full length strokes on each side finally followed by 2 full length 90deg strokes to blunt of the edge, run you finger down the edge gently to check for perfection and for safety as you don't want a razor blade edge.

To test for water sheen-
Wash your hands well
Pick up your perfectly clean and dry wing
Take your wing to a water tap set on medium to slow flow
Hold your wing with fingers not on the surfaces but on the edges
Starting from the front edge uppermost run the water flow over the wing from one end to the other, with the aim of getting the water to stick completely to every part and for a few seconds to resemble a full wet gloss finished mirror surface,
This will reveal any small areas not up to standard
Take the wing over to your sanding bench and just fine finish a little more in that area, then water sheen test again, repeat until perfect.

Tips
Not sanding off all the paint and transfers is doable if the wings are in new condition and don't need minor repair work, going in with 600 then 800 grit wet paper gives a great finish
Do not expect paint primer or any spray paint to cover the pin holes you will find in carbon, you would need to drown the surface in paint to do this and that will be detrimental to the wings profile and performance

Using standard spray paints other than the one shown above is possible but you may get undesirable paint surface reactions, crazing is annoying and once found then you have a big problem than may then mean you need to strip all the wing bare down to the base carbon and start over with the right paint as shown above.
These users thanked the author Foil for the post (total 4):
bohme (Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:07 pm) • revhed (Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:26 pm) • Oldman (Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:14 am) • phlow (Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:00 pm)
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Re: should water stick to the wing?

Postby Foil » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:01 pm

Close up when you looking for pinholes,
Image
Check your wings and masts for this.
This example was bad, but once rubbed back and treated was better than new,
new is rarely perfect.
One of my 633 wings was nearly this bad but is now perfect after the above treatment.
Check in the area where the carbon weave is showing under the clear gloss on all Moses wings

Pin holes filled in as above with red glass finishing compound as in the guide above
And before the acrillac Matt black paint and final fine finishing treatment
Image
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Re: should water stick to the wing?

Postby revhed » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:55 pm

Also,


I think I understand you sand straight lines from LE to TE, as opposed to circular, why please?
THX for info! :thumb:
R H

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Re: should water stick to the wing?

Postby deniska » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:32 am

Good info,
thanks Foil and others...
I tried the red glazing compound in Delta's videos - it works, but a bit messy, for my taste..
For small scratches I would love to get something that I can spray on and then polish..
Also lacquer seemed like more solid finish, comparing to the red acrylic stuff that you can scratch with a finger, literally.. and being clear and not bright red is also a big plus in my book.. The delta guy never mentioned coating the "red" with something else...just curious if anyone has some other recipes...

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Re: should water stick to the wing?

Postby GregK » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:06 am

Yeh, if red on black bothers you, take a Sharpie permanent pen to the red, then give it quick wipe to remove the black ink from the edges of the red now-black filler.

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Re: should water stick to the wing?

Postby Foil » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:46 am

deniska wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:32 am
Good info,
thanks Foil and others...
I tried the red glazing compound in Delta's videos - it works, but a bit messy, for my taste..
For small scratches I would love to get something that I can spray on and then polish..
Also lacquer seemed like more solid finish, comparing to the red acrylic stuff that you can scratch with a finger, literally.. and being clear and not bright red is also a big plus in my book.. The delta guy never mentioned coating the "red" with something else...just curious if anyone has some other recipes...
yes, the red pin hole filler is not durable and if used for scratches is quite rubbish, great for pin holes though.

for scratches-
fine scratches, sand scuffs, can be covered easily using the acrylic matt paint above, that works just great, this stuff is so good for that.
for deeper shell and stone scratches, then using one of the many fast setting epoxy fillers work well, again using a old store card to smear a very fine layer over the scratch and finish with hard sponge and wet paper, any air holes in the epoxy need a re visit.

the pin holes in the carbon do not cover well at all using paint or 2 part epoxy, don't know why, maybe epoxy just will not sink into the tiny little holes and the air inside them little holes warms up and blows out through the epoxy, i have found only the glass finishing putty works for this, and as recommended above hiding the red dots with felt tip marker works a treat.

JB marine epoxy works great but takes well over 18hrs to cure in a warm room, a right pain if you need the wing the same day. like when on holiday.
below.
Steve recently found this fast setting epoxy for our holidays starting tomorrow, hope we don't need it :thumb:
Image


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