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Wings for Garbage Winds

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windmaker
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Re: Wings for Garbage Winds

Postby windmaker » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:53 am

NYKiter wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:01 pm
Not for the coasties who have relatively steady winds....

After a few years of riding Im seeing roll stability being a key factor for foiling in frontal-driven winds (wide-range, punchy, gusty, garbage winds)

Obviously the 633 type surf wings with anhedral offer the best roll stability, but Im seeing the Armstrong (CF800) as having even more anhedral....

Any comments on wings that have the most anhedral?
No idea what a 633 type wing looks like but looks like you got everything the wrong way round. Wave wings are designed to be manoeuvrable therefore rather unstable roll stability whereas race wings are very stable for better control at high speed.

Based on my foiling experience (16 years) roll stability has more to do with wing span that anhedral

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jumptheshark
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Re: Wings for Garbage Winds

Postby jumptheshark » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:54 am

16 years ??!

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Kamikuza
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Re: Wings for Garbage Winds

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:38 am

windmaker wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:53 am
roll stability has more to do with wing span that anhedral
That's my opinion too, and I guess that means higher AR too. Most roll-stable foils I've used: original HoverGlide, Alpine Access, and my Axis wings. Less stable have been lower AR wings like the Naish Thrust, Cabrinha Carve and the Spitfire.

I found the HG to be annoyingly resistant to being rolled but I guess I've changed my technique since getting the 720/820 wings ... cos they go edge to edge nicely.

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Re: Wings for Garbage Winds

Postby Herman » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:55 am

Having now thought about it, if I were to design a roll resistant wing I would start with large wingspan and use an anhedral curve to promote stiffness. But there again my brain has been retired for a long time and you would have to start comprising to maintain pitch stability. Tricky stuff!

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Re: Wings for Garbage Winds

Postby windmaker » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:09 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:54 am
16 years ??!
Funny how most persons on this forum think kitefoil started 4 or 5 years ago. Carafino started producing production kite foils in 2005 but few of us had home built foils before that. Windsurfers experimented with foils in the 80's...

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Re: Wings for Garbage Winds

Postby NYKiter » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:28 pm

Carafino holds gust well......little draggy...but solid...

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Re: Wings for Garbage Winds

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:01 pm

Not sure I get why you want roll stable hydrofoils for gusty winds?

I would prefer having less roll stable ones, so you wont feel the gusts as hard, more forgiving.

Whereas for racing roll stable ones where you get yanked in the gusts, but can transform it to speed is key.

Same as with a more curved softer board, versus a stiff and flatter one (not hydrofoil).

And if you still want it roll stable, I agree with windmaker that wingspan is by far the most important factor.

8) Peter

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jumptheshark
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Re: Wings for Garbage Winds

Postby jumptheshark » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:35 pm

Agree that just by looking at em, wingspan is the biggie for roll resistance, but it also makes some sense to me that dihedral would feel a bit self stabilizing when weighted the way we do. Doesn't the mast also play into roll stability. Big long mast compared to something shorter where your more likely to ride the foil at less depth? Either way, I also don't think the foil is the variable you want to change for crap wind conditions.

Small kites on long lines are my best set up for garbage winds. Same foil as always.

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Re: Wings for Garbage Winds

Postby NYKiter » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:20 am

Obviously some wings are better than others with roll stability......if your going across the wind ( and not going fast on a race foil) and are pummeled with micro gusts embedded in 30 knots and have no time to point down wind - its going to want to roll you on the fuse axis....in the downwind direction (not completely over but just a hard jolt). To me, small wings like the spitfire are not good.....riding a foil in steady winds vs. garbage winds is like night and day to me....what ever is going on above my head is directly transmitted down into the foil.....just my experience....not my theories....in fact, on good wind days I will switch over to the 683 with 330 stab.....on the bad days in 30+ garbage winds its back to the 483 stab....I can lock down on 40+ knot garbage winds no problem on this setup. Im just wondering how other big anhedral wings like the Armstrong handle out of control winds...

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Re: Wings for Garbage Winds

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:29 am

Was out in 20 knots average with gusts to 35 on an 8m kite this week, 1200cm2 wing...

My issue wasn’t roll stability, but rather getting lifted off the board and breaching...!

The thing I notice in rough water is wider wings react more to what’s happening under surface, so there’s trade-offs there. Overall, high AR is good for me.


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