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Jibe technique

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kitenight11
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Jibe technique

Postby kitenight11 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:02 pm

Hi,

I just wanted to ask if jibing and turning in General is easier with bigger wings? Maybe because you don't need that much speed to not do touch down while jibing and therefore don't loose so easy linetension (if not doing pretty tight turn)?
So bigger frontwing equal slower jibingspeed (equal kiteturning) and therefore easier?
Would you think I would reognize a significant difference in between 950 cm and 1250 cm while jibing?

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Re: Jibe technique

Postby Jyoder » Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:48 pm

Mostly yes. Big wings give you more glide at low speed before falling off foil and are more stable during foot switch. However, you cant heel over as far due to wider span breaching surface and it takes more input to initiate the turn. I can’t snap a very tight high pressure jibe heeled over like on small foil. Then again, on big foil, I can pivot jibe in place with board more upright. So yes and no but mostly yes big wings are easier.

Slower speed of big wings makes flying the kite easier as you don’t slack then lines as easily.

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Re: Jibe technique

Postby jumptheshark » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:05 pm

Definitely yes, and some of the 1200cm wings like moses 633 or lift 170 have average wing span.

Being able to go slower is a big deal. We all go into everything too tentatively at first and those on smaller wings see success when they start to give it a bit more pace.

The general stability of bigger winds is another big help. My current wing has such a big sweet spot stance wise compared to my smaller wings. Where on my 560cm wing you have to nail your footwork, on my 1100cm wing I can stomp all over the place and still ride away.

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Re: Jibe technique

Postby tkaraszewski » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:14 pm

Everything is easier on bigger wings except for hitting high top speeds.
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kitenight11
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Re: Jibe technique

Postby kitenight11 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:34 pm

Thanks to all for the answers.
My Purpose is: Currently I am riding the duotone spirit carve (950cm) and wanted to upgrade to the surf wing (1250cm).
Mostly because of the fear of getting slack lines while jibing. If there is enough wind everything is OK, but if wind is not very strong I am sometimes too fast downwinding while jibing, or my kite is not drifting good enough or, or, or. Maybe for 90 kg, I also am better suited with a bigger wing?

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Re: Jibe technique

Postby tomtom » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:54 pm

Imo slack lines are not function of wing size at all :) And in stronger wind its almost always easier not to slack lines.
Nevertheless i absolutely prefer bigger wings but from different reasons than slack lines. Wing size are not rider weight function but more of "desired" speed range function

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Re: Jibe technique

Postby windmaker » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:56 pm

I have to disagree with all the above.
1. Area doesn't matter, span does. My 510 high aspect race wing is more stable than my 650 lower aspect wave wing .
2. Good speed (doesn't have to be super fast) gives you better balance than super slow speed , just like when riding a bike. Speed can be a little intimidating at first but trying to go as slow as possible to gain stability defies the laws of physics. Super big wings are slow and draggy.
3. A longer fuselage and bigger stab combined with a race wing , will give you more stability when jibing than super big (1000 +) low aspect front wings.
4. Foil kites are easier to jibe as they give you a better vertical support and better glide (you fall when you stop) that inflatables.

In the case of the original poster, slack lines will disappear when technique improves . Racers jibe super fast wings in sub 8kts of wind while going down wind without getting slack lines so with a little practice you can do it too. Buying a bigger wing is not the solution.

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Re: Jibe technique

Postby jumptheshark » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:16 pm

Of course you do.

Sure, span matters, but you can't just say area doesn't. If it matters with respect to the stabilizer it matters on the main wing too. Also a bit disingenuous to say all bigger wings are slow and draggy. 1200cm is no longer a "super big wing". There are plenty of us on wings that size who find their speed envelope more than enough for the way we ride. Area matters just as speed does. Easy enough to simply state "go faster", but not that practical. For most of us its easier to learn moves on wings that keep their stability at low speeds.

I have three wings. 530cm, 710, and 1100. They span 54, 61, 63 cm respectively.

With each step, stability and ease of footwork went way up as stall speed went way down.
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Re: Jibe technique

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:08 pm

I am not so sure you will gain as much as you/others expect with the 1250 over the 950.

Agree with windmaker, to avoid slack lines are more about time and technique, than area :thumb:

A bigger wing is still easier, correct, more room for errors usually, but I think the gain is marginal over a certain size.

Why?

Because, smaller wings are a lot more stable because they at speed dont have the same ponyride, when you put your feet wrong, they just ride along a lot more in control.
So the footswitch is just as easy, actually easier than with bigger wings.

So with practice when you have your kite timing and turn correct, you can avoid slack lines, a tad easier with bigger wings though.
But as the footswitch is easier on the smaller (or more flat profiled) ones, there is a tradeoff.

With my barely 80 kg, I have found that an 600 cm2 wing is small in every way, and more difficult if you ride bigger wings also.

But my 800 cm2 and 1200 cm2 area wings, are the same regarding "jibing ease" for me.

Meaning, I think it is not linear, so from the small wings to bigger wings there are huge advantages, but I honestly dont think this advantage is very big or present if you go REALLY big.

Difficult to say, but the advantage might not be as big as you expect, as you got a REALLY big wing now, 950 cm2.

If you are relatively new into hydrofoiling, well, doesnt matter how many years actually, but if you are relatively new into practicing and learning jibing and find it IMPOSSIBLE - then you are just like the rest of us, and time on the water will eventually make it happen.
We have all been there, and bigger wings helps indeed, but dont forget we all have found it impossible at one time, and later possible with even the smallest wings :D

If you KNOW you like to go slow, and ride waves only, then no doubt go for the 1250.

Otherwise I would hesitate or not do it - but let time make everything work one day, after hard work untill then.

It is NOT easy, as simple as that :rollgrin:

I often find the medium size a lot more fun than the big one, eventhough I am not into speed in any way :thumb:

8) Peter

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Re: Jibe technique

Postby kitenight11 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:22 am

I think I will give the duotone 1250 a go. It seems to be not too thick, so hopefully drag/speed loss will not be too dramatic and stability will be a bit better. Don't get me wrong, jibes in both directions are 95% safe, but always with a bit of slack and tricky. But can mostly go quickly upwind to get lines streched again.
Anybody already tested this frontwing?


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