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Clouds are fragile

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NYKiter
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Clouds are fragile

Postby NYKiter » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:38 am

Im seeing these things are extremely fragile, doesnt take much to tear the canopy.....Ive heard these are the No. 1 repair for Charlie in OBX.

Anyone have the same experience?

BWD
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Re: Clouds are fragile

Postby BWD » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:08 am

Not so much the same experience.
Did put a cloud in a tree a few years ago, ripped about 6” near TE. Repaired it myself, sail tape and stitches. A few weeks later tested in OH ocean waves. Few years on, still going strong. Light is the way to go.
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jumptheshark
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Re: Clouds are fragile

Postby jumptheshark » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:26 am

I’m amazed at how robust naked Dacron and rip stop is. I’ve had two. Got both well used and have really abused them. Self launch and land day in day out. Plenty of time spent overpowered. Loads of crashes. Their plenty bagged out for sure, but no issues with durability.

Light definitely is the way to go.

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Re: Clouds are fragile

Postby Wazza Foil » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:26 am

Not my experience, I've got 4 and now 3rd summer

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Re: Clouds are fragile

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:28 am

Of course they are more fragile, as maybe 40 % lighter than most other "light" LEI kites.

But as with all other things, if you are not harsh on them in daily use (crashing hard, dragging on things on land or in the sand etc) there are no problems I would say, and they are so much better when that light :thumb:

Not a typical beginner kite anyways (a bit too foil specific for that), so should not be an issue IMO.

8) Peter

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Re: Clouds are fragile

Postby stevez » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:16 am

The clouds are made from exactly the same Dacron and ripstop nylon as other kites.
What's missing are the scuff guards, protectors and other reinforcements that are present on most kites, not to mention the struts themselves plus all the connections and valves that just add dead weight.

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Re: Clouds are fragile

Postby jumptheshark » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:10 pm

I think the sweet spot is likely one micro step up from cloud construction. Simple rip stop and dacron, but with a couple dacron scuff guards layered over the essential leading edge to canopy stitching at the "elbows" where the kite is likely to touch the ground when self launching. No mark cloth, or kevlar etc. Simple strategic stitching protection. Probably 50 g worth of material total.

The pendulum has been way way over at the "bomb proof" end of the spectrum for a long while now and its finally swinging back with so much less dacron at the wingtips in most builds hitting the market in 2020. Now that we have broken the ice in publishing a few kite weights, that will slowly force more competitive "trimming" of excess materials.

Raising awareness of true and published kite weights is probably the one positive impact this forum still has. We should keep it up. If reviews routinely report dry kite weight it will become a part of the marketing zeitgeist.

My 8.5m cloud is an astonishingly low 1.6kg Leagues ahead.

Were only now at the stage where multiple companies are claiming to have the lightest one strut kite on the market. None of them backing that claim in any way.

I see the boxer has finally done away with those leading edge plastic battens this years. They just are not necessary as evidenced by all the other kites on the market! The Ghost looks pretty good, but has four battens sewn into the trailing edge. two on each wingtip. Hopefully with a few generations of refinement all the light weight segment of the market will get rid of these cheats and have their shapes refined well enough to minimize flutter. Well that and simply getting over the fact that flutter is not the end of the world and generally happens when you should simply rig down a size.

Likely at least 4 years until we get a super minimalist kite built from Aluula. Can only imagine how amazing a 900g 9m would be.

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Re: Clouds are fragile

Postby ronnie » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:18 pm

stevez wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:16 am
The clouds are made from exactly the same Dacron and ripstop nylon as other kites.
What's missing are the scuff guards, protectors and other reinforcements that are present on most kites, not to mention the struts themselves plus all the connections and valves that just add dead weight.
The Clouds also have standard weight bladder material - whereas some other manufacturers use lightweight bladders.
Like you say - made from the same stuff as other kites - just less of it.

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Re: Clouds are fragile

Postby patrelsa » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:20 pm

Ive owned clouds and always self landed and launched and beat them up in the waves and they lasted a long time,they are great quality kites,just a little expensive :)

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Re: Clouds are fragile

Postby Matteo V » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:53 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:10 pm
The pendulum has been way way over at the "bomb proof" end of the spectrum for a long while now and its finally swinging back with so much less dacron at the wingtips in most builds hitting the market in 2020. Now that we have broken the ice in publishing a few kite weights, that will slowly force more competitive "trimming" of excess materials.
This could be good for the kite industry. If kites are made lighter and less durable, then maybe COREporations can sell more of them since product lifespan will be shorter. So that would mean that kites would be only usable for 2-3 users (sold used 1-2times), instead of 3-4 users (sold used 2-3 times). But then there would also be the concern of lighter material "stretching out" (degrading performance) on the original purchaser, vs the 2nd or 3rd owner. Thus prices of a kite with a shorter lifespan would need to drop to encourage those mostly in the used market to move to the "brand new/full retail" market, when performance is a consideration.

Then there is the hydrofoil thing where there is less load on the kite, and not as much "sitting flapping on the beach waiting for wind". This could mean further differentiation of "hydrofoil capable" kites, to hydrofoil only kites, vs durable around multi use kites.

I am sure some are waiting around for Aullauullllalaaa to be fully integrated into the kite (canopy is where it is needed, not LE). But waiting on implementation and real world experience with a new technology, rarely works out the way anyone expects.

Just some thoughts.


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