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Re: Moses 590 / 633 vs. Cabrinha vs. Lift 150 / 170

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:37 am
by kitegirls
grigorib wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:07 pm
kitegirls wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:34 am
Hi,

I am trying to decide which foil to buy for my next foil. I have been on the Cabrinha for a couple months and I feel its time to step it up. I am basically trying to decide between the Moses 590 and Moses 633 but I'd like to know how they compare in ease, speed, beginner friendliness and stability etc to all of the above listed foils. Does anyone know which would be better for a beginner and how they compare to each other and the other brands? Thanks!
It depends on your weight. For a light person 590 would be pretty awesome. For 190 lbs and up a surf wing like 633 (or 679) would rock.

590 would have higher “average high” cruising speed than 633 but also it will need more speed to get on plane and not as low of lowend speed. 590 mounts on 647 fuselage and 633 goes onto 710 - so your options for smaller/larger wings, in means of further upgrades, will be defined by fuselage you’re commiting to.
But again, if you’re 160 lbs - get 590. If you’re 200 lbs - get 633 or rather 679.
I am 170 pounds and my partner is 120 pounds and we will be sharing it. Would you recommend the 633 or the 679 for this? And why? Do the 633 and 679 share the same specs as far as low end speed and top end speed? Thank you

Re: Moses 590 / 633 vs. Cabrinha vs. Lift 150 / 170

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:32 am
by Peter_Frank
The 633 will be the easiest wing, no doubt.

But the 679 will probably come close, and when learned be the better option if mostly in flat water.
It is faster, goes better upwind, and low end almost the same, pretty close at least.

The 633 turns faster though, and more forgiving regarding pitch, easier and fun to play in waves.

8) Peter

Re: Moses 590 / 633 vs. Cabrinha vs. Lift 150 / 170

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:56 pm
by Janus
And then there is a 695 and soon 718...
What about them?

Re: Moses 590 / 633 vs. Cabrinha vs. Lift 150 / 170

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:24 pm
by Peter_Frank
Janus wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:56 pm
And then there is a 695 and soon 718...
What about them?

I can only contribute regarding their specs...

Both wings are quite high aspect and high span, 695 is 770 cm2 in area and 6.3 AR. 718 is 740 cm2 and 7 in AR.

Not easy wings, not fast turning as high span and high AR, compared to the 633 and 679.

- really good performance though, good for the experienced rider not aiming for waves but okay speed and lightwind when some power from the kite.

8) Peter

Re: Moses 590 / 633 vs. Cabrinha vs. Lift 150 / 170

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:25 pm
by grigorib
kitegirls wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:37 am
grigorib wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:07 pm
kitegirls wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:34 am
Hi,

I am trying to decide which foil to buy for my next foil. I have been on the Cabrinha for a couple months and I feel its time to step it up. I am basically trying to decide between the Moses 590 and Moses 633 but I'd like to know how they compare in ease, speed, beginner friendliness and stability etc to all of the above listed foils. Does anyone know which would be better for a beginner and how they compare to each other and the other brands? Thanks!
It depends on your weight. For a light person 590 would be pretty awesome. For 190 lbs and up a surf wing like 633 (or 679) would rock.

590 would have higher “average high” cruising speed than 633 but also it will need more speed to get on plane and not as low of lowend speed. 590 mounts on 647 fuselage and 633 goes onto 710 - so your options for smaller/larger wings, in means of further upgrades, will be defined by fuselage you’re commiting to.
But again, if you’re 160 lbs - get 590. If you’re 200 lbs - get 633 or rather 679.
I am 170 pounds and my partner is 120 pounds and we will be sharing it. Would you recommend the 633 or the 679 for this? And why? Do the 633 and 679 share the same specs as far as low end speed and top end speed? Thank you
Your basic choice starts with which fuselage to use.
- for 647 kite fuselage 590 or larger 695 would be nice fast wings. And later you can go to 558 or 645 race wing when you feel the need for speed.
- for 710 surf fuselage I’d suggest 679. Don’t go more than 1000 sq.cm wing area - it’ll feel slow and not easy to ride at 120 lbs. The challenge would be to go faster because even smaller 720 wing is not as thin and as fast as kite fuselage wings
Janus wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:56 pm
And then there is a 695 and soon 718...
What about them?
I’d hope 695 to be a better version of 548 which was just a tad smaller than 590 and for my 200 lbs I enjoy larger wings a lot
720 wing for surf fuselage and probably comparable 718 for kite fuselage are way too roll stable to enjoy and are not much faster than 683s

Re: Moses 590 / 633 vs. Cabrinha vs. Lift 150 / 170

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:28 am
by kitegirls
grigorib wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:25 pm
kitegirls wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:37 am
grigorib wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:07 pm


It depends on your weight. For a light person 590 would be pretty awesome. For 190 lbs and up a surf wing like 633 (or 679) would rock.

590 would have higher “average high” cruising speed than 633 but also it will need more speed to get on plane and not as low of lowend speed. 590 mounts on 647 fuselage and 633 goes onto 710 - so your options for smaller/larger wings, in means of further upgrades, will be defined by fuselage you’re commiting to.
But again, if you’re 160 lbs - get 590. If you’re 200 lbs - get 633 or rather 679.
I am 170 pounds and my partner is 120 pounds and we will be sharing it. Would you recommend the 633 or the 679 for this? And why? Do the 633 and 679 share the same specs as far as low end speed and top end speed? Thank you
Your basic choice starts with which fuselage to use.
- for 647 kite fuselage 590 or larger 695 would be nice fast wings. And later you can go to 558 or 645 race wing when you feel the need for speed.
- for 710 surf fuselage I’d suggest 679. Don’t go more than 1000 sq.cm wing area - it’ll feel slow and not easy to ride at 120 lbs. The challenge would be to go faster because even smaller 720 wing is not as thin and as fast as kite fuselage wings
Janus wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:56 pm
And then there is a 695 and soon 718...
What about them?
I’d hope 695 to be a better version of 548 which was just a tad smaller than 590 and for my 200 lbs I enjoy larger wings a lot
720 wing for surf fuselage and probably comparable 718 for kite fuselage are way too roll stable to enjoy and are not much faster than 683s
The 633 , which seems to be what 90%+ of what everyone recommends for a beginner for 50% surf and 50% freeride is 1239cm2. That's well above the "1000cm2" which you recommend.

Re: Moses 590 / 633 vs. Cabrinha vs. Lift 150 / 170

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:32 am
by grigorib
kitegirls wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:28 am
grigorib wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:25 pm
kitegirls wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:37 am


I am 170 pounds and my partner is 120 pounds and we will be sharing it. Would you recommend the 633 or the 679 for this? And why? Do the 633 and 679 share the same specs as far as low end speed and top end speed? Thank you
Your basic choice starts with which fuselage to use.
- for 647 kite fuselage 590 or larger 695 would be nice fast wings. And later you can go to 558 or 645 race wing when you feel the need for speed.
- for 710 surf fuselage I’d suggest 679. Don’t go more than 1000 sq.cm wing area - it’ll feel slow and not easy to ride at 120 lbs. The challenge would be to go faster because even smaller 720 wing is not as thin and as fast as kite fuselage wings
Janus wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:56 pm
And then there is a 695 and soon 718...
What about them?
I’d hope 695 to be a better version of 548 which was just a tad smaller than 590 and for my 200 lbs I enjoy larger wings a lot
720 wing for surf fuselage and probably comparable 718 for kite fuselage are way too roll stable to enjoy and are not much faster than 683s
The 633 , which seems to be what 90%+ of what everyone recommends for a beginner for 50% surf and 50% freeride is 1239cm2. That's well above the "1000cm2" which you recommend.
If you’re getting a brand new set, get a set with 679 for slower rides at 120-170 lbs rider weight. It’s 633’s “little brother” wing which should be suitable for lighter riders.

Re: Moses 590 / 633 vs. Cabrinha vs. Lift 150 / 170

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:43 am
by kitegirls
grigorib wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:32 am
kitegirls wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:28 am
grigorib wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:25 pm


Your basic choice starts with which fuselage to use.
- for 647 kite fuselage 590 or larger 695 would be nice fast wings. And later you can go to 558 or 645 race wing when you feel the need for speed.
- for 710 surf fuselage I’d suggest 679. Don’t go more than 1000 sq.cm wing area - it’ll feel slow and not easy to ride at 120 lbs. The challenge would be to go faster because even smaller 720 wing is not as thin and as fast as kite fuselage wings



I’d hope 695 to be a better version of 548 which was just a tad smaller than 590 and for my 200 lbs I enjoy larger wings a lot
720 wing for surf fuselage and probably comparable 718 for kite fuselage are way too roll stable to enjoy and are not much faster than 683s
The 633 , which seems to be what 90%+ of what everyone recommends for a beginner for 50% surf and 50% freeride is 1239cm2. That's well above the "1000cm2" which you recommend.
If you’re getting a brand new set, get a set with 679 for slower rides at 120-170 lbs rider weight. It’s 633’s “little brother” wing which should be suitable for lighter riders.

So definitely the 679 over the 633 or the 590 for 120 to 170 pound beginners for 50% surf and 50% freeride? Also which fuselage and stabilizer should I get with it? And whats your opinion on mast height? Most that ride Moses recommend the 91cm but I would like to mostly surf with it eventually and I also only kite where the reef is 2 to 3 feet deep. 4 to 5 feet at high tide at most. I see Moses has a new 82cm mast which sounds interesting.

Re: Moses 590 / 633 vs. Cabrinha vs. Lift 150 / 170

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:01 am
by grigorib
kitegirls wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:43 am
grigorib wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:32 am
kitegirls wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:28 am


The 633 , which seems to be what 90%+ of what everyone recommends for a beginner for 50% surf and 50% freeride is 1239cm2. That's well above the "1000cm2" which you recommend.
If you’re getting a brand new set, get a set with 679 for slower rides at 120-170 lbs rider weight. It’s 633’s “little brother” wing which should be suitable for lighter riders.

So definitely the 679 over the 633 or the 590 for 120 to 170 pound beginners for 50% surf and 50% freeride? Also which fuselage and stabilizer should I get with it? And whats your opinion on mast height? Most that ride Moses recommend the 91cm but I would like to mostly surf with it eventually and I also only kite where the reef is 2 to 3 feet deep. 4 to 5 feet at high tide at most. I see Moses has a new 82cm mast which sounds interesting.
Rather do 679 for surf/freeride/beginner. It’ll run a bit slower than 590 so it won’t outrun waves and 679 is also more beginner friendly.

679 mounts on 710 fuselage and if you get a set it comes with 82cm mast which should be good for shallows you mentioned.
When you buy a complete set you’d save about 12% off individual components cost.
Here’s short compatibility guide viewtopic.php?p=1075851#p1075851 if you decide to build a custom set

I like riding long 105cm mast for deep water and short 80/91 masts for shallows. Coming year I will likely replace both 80 and 91cm masts with a single 82cm