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First impression of Gong M Pro

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windmaker
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Re: First impression of Gong M Pro

Postby windmaker » Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:52 pm

Thanks for the feed back. Those Moses reference numbers are anoying as they meen nothing to persons unfamiliar with theirv products. Why can't they use surface area like everybody else?

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Re: First impression of Gong M Pro

Postby TomW » Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:47 pm

Anders, I never used the Veloce stab with the m pro, and now I've sold the m pro and kite+ surf stab.

But Veloce stab with veloce m wing is never washing out. It grips, drives and glides great.

Azoele,
The m pro definitely has different start and stall behavior than the 633. When I transferred from 633 to m pro, I couldn't get going at all first session. I would use too much rear foot pressure and shoot out of the water. I learned it wants more front foot pressure, keep the AoA lower and it starts just as easy as 633.
This seems logical as the wing is higher aspect.
In regards to kite or surf stab, the difference is when doing faster more aggressive turns. The kite stab would wash out or lose drive. Otherwise it's a bit faster straight, and a bit more reactive.

I've learned that using a new foil I need 5-6 hours on water to adjust and fully understand the new foil. A 1 hour test is not nearly enough.

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Re: First impression of Gong M Pro

Postby Flyboy » Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:57 pm

TomW wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:47 pm


Azoele,
The m pro definitely has different start and stall behavior than the 633. When I transferred from 633 to m pro, I couldn't get going at all first session. I would use too much rear foot pressure and shoot out of the water. I learned it wants more front foot pressure, keep the AoA lower and it starts just as easy as 633.
Interesting you should say that. My first sessions with a foil (a Zeeko with Carver 700cm2 wing) the always foil shot out of the water resulting in unpleasant twisting falls or out of control porpoising. I assume that this is everyone's first experience with foiling - it is a result of years of kiting using pressure on the back foot to water start.

What is required is to retrain muscle memory to shift weigh forward as you start off. When I got the Mpro I had the same experience again - initially it was shooting out of the water because it generated so much more lift than the smaller wings I was used to. What I find interesting is that you say the 633 doesn't require such a weight forward start. I wonder if this is a big reason why many people found it such an appealing foil?

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Re: First impression of Gong M Pro

Postby azoele » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:22 am

TomW wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:47 pm
Anders, I never used the Veloce stab with the m pro, and now I've sold the m pro and kite+ surf stab.

But Veloce stab with veloce m wing is never washing out. It grips, drives and glides great.

Azoele,
The m pro definitely has different start and stall behavior than the 633. When I transferred from 633 to m pro, I couldn't get going at all first session. I would use too much rear foot pressure and shoot out of the water. I learned it wants more front foot pressure, keep the AoA lower and it starts just as easy as 633.
This seems logical as the wing is higher aspect.
In regards to kite or surf stab, the difference is when doing faster more aggressive turns. The kite stab would wash out or lose drive. Otherwise it's a bit faster straight, and a bit more reactive.

I've learned that using a new foil I need 5-6 hours on water to adjust and fully understand the new foil. A 1 hour test is not nearly enough.
So true, Tom: I hurt myself falling on the foil, because at first the L Pro is counterintuitive.
I got on the foil, it started to rise, and instead of pushing down with the front foot, I let the bar go to lose power: on the 633 this would result in immediate stalling and recovering of the asset, on the L Pro, it began to lift even more apparently, so made me fall.
I stand convinced that, below a certain speed threshold, the stab will stall, and with no counterbalance the front will tilt the whole foil upward, incresing perceived lift, just before stalling.
The 633 will fly, barely, extremely tilted upwards, gently sinking. Easier, but much less efficient in light wind.

Now that I understood the behaviour, I find the L Pro to be even better for light wind waterstarting... but at first, it was disconcerting!
Then... GONG has a line better suited to people like me... the RISE, for beginners, so I should have been warned :D

I wonder: if I were to get me a Veloce, should I get an M or an L, given my weight?
Also: do you find the Veloce to support you as much as the Pro wing?
My foot changes have become easier on the GONG (more stable), but also, easier because it has enormeous lift even at low speeds under my feet.
Is the Veloce less pushy? Is it very much more unstable than the Pro?

I dread asking GONG if I should go for a M or L Veloce, they're really having a hard time answering, probably overwhelmed with requests/orders.
Again, excellent for them!

Last: GONG people are adamant that they do not make the edges of their foils sharp, and they won't, because they find it too unsafe. "Do it at your own risk to earn a bit of performance".
So, I was expecting blunt, "fat" wings... but actually, the wing and the stab are very thin already. Just the back of the wing is blunt (probably, 1mm at most), but even that is barely visible, and can be felt only with the hand. It is enough to cut in the proper conditions, or, probably, the best that can be done to avoid become truly dangerous.

I have to say, I am pleasantly surprised at the amount of thought they put into every detail.
Am certainly not good enough to judge the foil dynamics (but for the obvious differences with my old kit), but, if it does last as much as my 633 (it was used when I got it, plus 2 years with me, and still goes strong), it'll be just amazing value per €.

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Re: First impression of Gong M Pro

Postby TomW » Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:15 pm

Azoele,

I would suppose if you are happy with L Pro, then the Veloce L would be equivalent.

For me the M Pro and Veloce M are equivalent. I don't feel any significant loss of low end. Just a bit more aggressive with kite on start, a bit more downwind the first 2 seconds and it pops right up. I can fly directly out of the waterstart.
During transitions I can slow way down and pivot turn on the fly.
When flying the Veloce has less roll stability than M Pro with surf stab. M Pro with kite stab, about the same, but only had a 5-6 sessions on m pro with kite stab.

I'd recommend sticking to the m pro awhile until you are fully accomplished on gybes, tacks , footswitches. Then it's worth the step to 100cm mast and Veloce wings. I sold my m pro with alu mast in 5 min...took 10% off retail price, threw in the wing cover and lost the shipping.

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Re: First impression of Gong M Pro

Postby azoele » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:22 pm

TomW wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:15 pm
Azoele,

I would suppose if you are happy with L Pro, then the Veloce L would be equivalent.

For me the M Pro and Veloce M are equivalent. I don't feel any significant loss of low end. Just a bit more aggressive with kite on start, a bit more downwind the first 2 seconds and it pops right up. I can fly directly out of the waterstart.
During transitions I can slow way down and pivot turn on the fly.
When flying the Veloce has less roll stability than M Pro with surf stab. M Pro with kite stab, about the same, but only had a 5-6 sessions on m pro with kite stab.

I'd recommend sticking to the m pro awhile until you are fully accomplished on gybes, tacks , footswitches. Then it's worth the step to 100cm mast and Veloce wings. I sold my m pro with alu mast in 5 min...took 10% off retail price, threw in the wing cover and lost the shipping.
Tom, I will follow your advice and stay on the L Pro.
The more I use it, the more I like it for light wind, it is very well thought out, and once one understands how it works, it's very, very nice.
Couldn't go fast with it (topped at 15 knots), but going slow with it is just fabulous.
Today I was the only one in the water, probably had 6/7knots. I could do flying footswitches even without kite assistance, just pumping the foil: in light wind, it is truly a nice foil.

Am already on the 100cm mast, which is rather nice. Nice, and looks so cool!

I am trying to learn foot switches from regular to toeside now, which feels impossible compared to the now easy toeside-to-normal switches... so it'll take a lot before I tack! :oops:
All in all, I am but a beginner.

Bests!

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Re: First impression of Gong M Pro

Postby mede » Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:49 am

Yesterday, I pulled the trigger on the ALLVATOR FREEWAVE ALU/CARBON - M Pro Clear, together with the 4.4 Catch 2x Board.
As a foil beginner (had 1 afternoon so far on the water - was able to fly on a short mast with an old Cabrinha foil) - I added the 65 cm mast that I will use in the beginning.

Now my question: By default, the M Pro comes with a 90cm Alu mast. Would you recommend to change it to a 100cm Alu mast (carbon may come later ;) ), or stick to the 90cm?

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Re: First impression of Gong M Pro

Postby jaros » Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:54 am

mede wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:49 am
Yesterday, I pulled the trigger on the ALLVATOR FREEWAVE ALU/CARBON - M Pro Clear, together with the 4.4 Catch 2x Board.
As a foil beginner (had 1 afternoon so far on the water - was able to fly on a short mast with an old Cabrinha foil) - I added the 65 cm mast that I will use in the beginning.

Now my question: By default, the M Pro comes with a 90cm Alu mast. Would you recommend to change it to a 100cm Alu mast (carbon may come later ;) ), or stick to the 90cm?
As far as I know, there is no 100cm Alu mast in Gong foil mast line. Only carbon mast exists in 100cm lenght. So, just stick with the 90cm alu. :thumb:
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mede
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Re: First impression of Gong M Pro

Postby mede » Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:58 am

You're absolutely right ;) I falsely assumed they would have a 100cm Alu mast as well.

For those who have tried the 100cm Carbon mast: how much better is it than the 90cm Alu mast? (I may change my mind regarding the carbon timing with enough evidence :D)

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Re: First impression of Gong M Pro

Postby GTC » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:02 pm

Hi all,

Few months ago I purchased a Gong foil board. Catch 3CS 4.6 and Pro Wing M.

The board looks solid but I am concerned about how easily the surface gets scratched. Unlike other boards I have from other brands, the surface of the Catch is porous and without a glossy finish. It scratches with minimal friction on any hard surface and it also stains VERY easily.

Does everybody experience this issue on their Catch boards? I know it's a minor issue that doesn't affect the performance but can't understand how a top quality board has this poor finish.

Thanks in advance


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