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alu masts

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dave1986
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Re: alu masts

Postby dave1986 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:48 am

Useful video comparing the options of 2 different aluminium masts (Slingshot vs Moses).
I believe that the Moses Aluminium mast is stiffer and heavier than Slingshot's options.
But It seems to me that the Slingshot option is a no-brainer if you're looking for a better value and versatile option, unless you want the very stiffest setup.

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Re: alu masts

Postby OzBungy » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:05 am

I wouldn't touch aluminium anything with a barge pole. All those screws. All that weight. All those corrosion problems.

Weight matters for all manhandling of the foil. Carrying to and from the water. Positioning to water start. Getting hit. The lighter the foil the easier all that is.

A heavier kit floats foil down. That is best when everything is going ok, and worse when anything is going wrong. It's lovely to sit and wait while your foil comes back to you like a naughty puppy. It's a pain if you've dropped your kite and your foil has disappeared downwind at speed away from you. It is impossible to swim after a foil running off downwind. It's nice to be able to see a board sitting up on its side when you're separated. It's no worse dragging back to a board on its side than any other kind of board.

Performance is a different issue altogether. I'm sure you can get a great performing aluminium kit.

At your level of skill, unless your current gear is garbage (read cheap mass market aluminium stuff, or very old stuff), chasing extra performance is a bit pointless. Foiling is probably 80% skill and experience and 20% equipment. When you're nailing 100% foot switches and gybes, and getting good results with your tacks then you might think about better gear.

The only exception to that is racing. If you want to race then better gear helps a lot.
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dkazhdan
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Re: alu masts

Postby dkazhdan » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:54 am

All this makes perfect sense.
Probably, the main reason I am wanting to upgrade my aluminum Shinn p-foil to a carbon set is that I cant deal with the way it whistles at speed.
I've tried sanding every single component at different angles, it just won't stop whistling :)



OzBungy wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:05 am
I wouldn't touch aluminium anything with a barge pole. All those screws. All that weight. All those corrosion problems.

Weight matters for all manhandling of the foil. Carrying to and from the water. Positioning to water start. Getting hit. The lighter the foil the easier all that is.

A heavier kit floats foil down. That is best when everything is going ok, and worse when anything is going wrong. It's lovely to sit and wait while your foil comes back to you like a naughty puppy. It's a pain if you've dropped your kite and your foil has disappeared downwind at speed away from you. It is impossible to swim after a foil running off downwind. It's nice to be able to see a board sitting up on its side when you're separated. It's no worse dragging back to a board on its side than any other kind of board.

Performance is a different issue altogether. I'm sure you can get a great performing aluminium kit.

At your level of skill, unless your current gear is garbage (read cheap mass market aluminium stuff, or very old stuff), chasing extra performance is a bit pointless. Foiling is probably 80% skill and experience and 20% equipment. When you're nailing 100% foot switches and gybes, and getting good results with your tacks then you might think about better gear.

The only exception to that is racing. If you want to race then better gear helps a lot.

OzBungy
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Re: alu masts

Postby OzBungy » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:17 am

dkazhdan wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:54 am
All this makes perfect sense.
Probably, the main reason I am wanting to upgrade my aluminum Shinn p-foil to a carbon set is that I cant deal with the way it whistles at speed.
....
I have done this on a couple of foils and it worked quite well.



The other thing to do is to look at the edges of your foil through a strong magnifier. Some of mine had micro-voids in the edges. Sealing and sanding the edges seemed to help. The 45 degree sanding has worked best.

When foiling you can often make the whistling come and go by changing the load and angle on the foil. Lots of load can mean lots of whistling. Not sure what it means in terms of having a quieter foil, but it's part of the exploration process in learning to understand your foil.

You can't really just stand on a foil and ride it. You have to think about stuff and work things out. Most of the time the first things you think you understand are quite wrong. Keep thinking. Keep riding. The answer is usually much simpler than you think.
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Re: alu masts

Postby Flyboy » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:22 am

OzBungy wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:05 am
I wouldn't touch aluminium anything with a barge pole. All those screws. All that weight. All those corrosion problems.

Weight matters for all manhandling of the foil. Carrying to and from the water. Positioning to water start. Getting hit. The lighter the foil the easier all that is.
I think you're overstating this. Aluminum works perfectly well & frankly, when you're riding the foil, the difference is not really apparent. It's certainly apparent when you're carrying the foil - the walk of shame is way more aggravating when you're carrying a heavier aluminum foil! Riding over a lighter carbon foil is also definitely more reassuring in terms of accidentally falling on or hitting the foil. On the other hand, the advantages of a more modular system that allows you to interchange parts - particularly strut lengths - easily & inexpensively, is a significant plus.

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Re: alu masts

Postby PrfctChaos » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:15 am

That and if you come off, "some" carbon rigs just love jumping out of the water, and heading for the kite lines, somersaulting all the way. I haven't experienced a aluminium foil jumping that high out of the water yet.

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Re: alu masts

Postby tomtom » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:32 am

Did anybody noticed that moses Apollo wing is much much further back than moses 633 /in relation to mast/. Apollo trailing edge is almost it mast axis - 633 - is like 5cm in front of mast. What is the implication of this? I mean regardless absolute trim which can be set on board.


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